Help ID this 6.5x55
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- Leduc County, Alberta
Originally manufactured at BLM (Berliner-Lubecker Maschinenfabrik), hence the "duv" on the top of the receiver.
Then most likely rebarreled by the Swedes after the war. could have been done by Carl Gustav or perhaps Husqvarna...
This is all IMHO...
Then most likely rebarreled by the Swedes after the war. could have been done by Carl Gustav or perhaps Husqvarna...
This is all IMHO...
Is it possible that duv 41 was added after it was rebarreled? I'm no scholar but I would have expected that it would have been 7.92x57 originally.
Okay, so I know nothing and I'm just trying to push this thread along. We are talking about a Model 98 Karbiner aren't we?
Markings
"DUV 41" is not a serial number. It is a German Code number for a manufacturer, and the year of manufacture. I'll dig out my code book later, and tell you who it is, but someone will probably beat me to it.
duv is Berliner-Lubecker Machinenfabrik, Lubeck Plant, Germany, made in 1941
Are you sure it is 6.5x55? That is a wartime rifle, and originally would have been 8x57 Mauser calibre.
That is a German crown on the proofmark (five loops and a cross on top). Swedish crowns have three loops and no cross.
ADDENDUM ------- SMELLIE is right. In the picture it looks like 5 spaces in the loops of the crown, and the DK is not really sharp and clear. The Danish crown has four spaces and a cross on top.
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"DUV 41" is not a serial number. It is a German Code number for a manufacturer, and the year of manufacture. I'll dig out my code book later, and tell you who it is, but someone will probably beat me to it.
duv is Berliner-Lubecker Machinenfabrik, Lubeck Plant, Germany, made in 1941
Are you sure it is 6.5x55? That is a wartime rifle, and originally would have been 8x57 Mauser calibre.
That is a German crown on the proofmark (five loops and a cross on top). Swedish crowns have three loops and no cross.
ADDENDUM ------- SMELLIE is right. In the picture it looks like 5 spaces in the loops of the crown, and the DK is not really sharp and clear. The Danish crown has four spaces and a cross on top.
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It was not rebarreled by either Carl Gustav or HVA, and sweden did not really rebarreled their Mauser after the war, because they did not get much involved in war.
Carl Gustav used a "crown" as a proofstamps / viewmarks and HVA used the same but at an angle.
Only Mauser Oberndorf subcontracted the Swedish Mausers.
Can you post better pics of the action and rifle?
Carl Gustav used a "crown" as a proofstamps / viewmarks and HVA used the same but at an angle.
Only Mauser Oberndorf subcontracted the Swedish Mausers.
Can you post better pics of the action and rifle?
Lee Enfield
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6.5x57 ?
Lots of K98s were converted to 6.5x55 by Schultz and Larson, to be used as competition rifles. I've seen them with standard military tangent style sights and with receiver mounted micrometer sights, with shrouded front sights. They come with either heavy barres or standard step barrels.
International Firearms, brought in a bunch of those many moons ago. Most were in well used condition, with worn bores and many d&t holes. They can be found with just about any manufacturers codes and dates.
I have the stock from one of those. It is one of the laminated style and was cut down by S&L and has a swivel, right on the flat nose of the fore end. The rifle that was in it was virtually unusable. It had been modified to extensively and had so many holes d&t, that I cut it up and threw a way the pieces. The bore was useless but the bolt and trigger were very good and saved another receiver that was lacking them.
Yours looks to be relatively clean, is the bore ok? Some of them were excellent. I think, Tradex, had a some of them for sale a few years back as well.
International Firearms, brought in a bunch of those many moons ago. Most were in well used condition, with worn bores and many d&t holes. They can be found with just about any manufacturers codes and dates.
I have the stock from one of those. It is one of the laminated style and was cut down by S&L and has a swivel, right on the flat nose of the fore end. The rifle that was in it was virtually unusable. It had been modified to extensively and had so many holes d&t, that I cut it up and threw a way the pieces. The bore was useless but the bolt and trigger were very good and saved another receiver that was lacking them.
Yours looks to be relatively clean, is the bore ok? Some of them were excellent. I think, Tradex, had a some of them for sale a few years back as well.
The Danish-converted Kar98k with the Schultz & Larsen barrel was absolutely devastating in the accuracy department. There were quite a few sold here about 20 years ago.
Crown over DK is a Danish marking.
Most of them, when they got here, had original woodwork which had been modded somewhat extensively: half-stocks with the fore-ends built up from laminations to accommodate the heavy barrels.
The rifles were used for many years by the Danish equivalent of the NRA in national and international target competitions. Half-MOA is nothing to achieve with one of these, given that the bore is in decent shape. My range buddy of many years had 2 of these and a Norski .30-06 and then last year, got a mint-unfired Swedish model. It was his ambition to try all three out together this Summer so he could make up his mind as to which actually was the BEST, but our fine plans were interrupted most rudely by a cardiac arrest.
Still think it would be a great test, especially with 24x glass on the critter. I know: heresy. But he was interested in exactly HOW accurate you could make one and the glass removed much of the human error. Between you and me, my money was on the Norwegian Mauser; I really don't see how you can beat consistent .3-MOA out to 400 at least.
Besides, it was his favourite. But the Swedes can indeed shoot and, even though they were not new when they hit these shores, the Danish models did achieve some wicked results. I do remember a certain 1000-metre plate at CFB Shilo which went down a bit over 2 seconds after one of these took a shot at it. Same rifle did the same thing, one shot, at the fun shoot after the match, so it wasn't a fluke.
They can shoot!
And this is a nice one.
Crown over DK is a Danish marking.
Most of them, when they got here, had original woodwork which had been modded somewhat extensively: half-stocks with the fore-ends built up from laminations to accommodate the heavy barrels.
The rifles were used for many years by the Danish equivalent of the NRA in national and international target competitions. Half-MOA is nothing to achieve with one of these, given that the bore is in decent shape. My range buddy of many years had 2 of these and a Norski .30-06 and then last year, got a mint-unfired Swedish model. It was his ambition to try all three out together this Summer so he could make up his mind as to which actually was the BEST, but our fine plans were interrupted most rudely by a cardiac arrest.
Still think it would be a great test, especially with 24x glass on the critter. I know: heresy. But he was interested in exactly HOW accurate you could make one and the glass removed much of the human error. Between you and me, my money was on the Norwegian Mauser; I really don't see how you can beat consistent .3-MOA out to 400 at least.
Besides, it was his favourite. But the Swedes can indeed shoot and, even though they were not new when they hit these shores, the Danish models did achieve some wicked results. I do remember a certain 1000-metre plate at CFB Shilo which went down a bit over 2 seconds after one of these took a shot at it. Same rifle did the same thing, one shot, at the fun shoot after the match, so it wasn't a fluke.
They can shoot!
And this is a nice one.
The stepped barrels, if I recall correctly, were for service related matches.
Smellie, you and your buds must have had first pick at International. All of the rifles, except for the very odd one, we received here were almost shot out. Many had holes drilled all over them as well. As for laminations, that is an understatement.
I'm happy for you guys that got good ones though. There is nothing more pleasing in a rifle, than the fact that it shoots straight on a consistent basis.
Smellie, you and your buds must have had first pick at International. All of the rifles, except for the very odd one, we received here were almost shot out. Many had holes drilled all over them as well. As for laminations, that is an understatement.
I'm happy for you guys that got good ones though. There is nothing more pleasing in a rifle, than the fact that it shoots straight on a consistent basis.
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My buddy and I picked one up at a gun show, just the action, bolt and 27-inch .308 heavy barrel, absolutely unfired. Guy selling it insisted that it was a good English barrel, tried selling it to me. It was out of my class fiscally at the time. I took one quick look at the words "SCHULTZ & LARSEN - OTTERUP" and the Danish proofs and called my friend over. It changed hands 3 minutes later for $225. A butchered Kar 98k stock and a bit of Acra-Glas later and it was out on the range the next week and making teensy-tiny little holes, one right on top of the other at 100 but, truth to tell, it did need the better part of an inch at 200.
Sometimes you just, plain, crazy, luck right out.
I have kept my eye open ever since for those English barrels, the ones stamped "SCHULTZ & LARSEN - OTTERUP" and with the little Dansker crowns.
Sometimes you just, plain, crazy, luck right out.
I have kept my eye open ever since for those English barrels, the ones stamped "SCHULTZ & LARSEN - OTTERUP" and with the little Dansker crowns.
Ok, now I know where your coming from. 7.62x51 match Danish 98s. Totally different bunch of fruit there. The thread was about the conversions to 6.5x55sm.
I also have one of those 7.62x51 conversions. You're right, they are tack drivers. Some of them came with pretty impressive micrometer sights as well. They were jewels in disguise. Good for you, taking the chance on a stripped rifle can be a bit hairy, unless you're buying it for the action.
I also have one of those 7.62x51 conversions. You're right, they are tack drivers. Some of them came with pretty impressive micrometer sights as well. They were jewels in disguise. Good for you, taking the chance on a stripped rifle can be a bit hairy, unless you're buying it for the action.
Seriously, most of the 6.5s received in this neck of the woods were pretty good; only saw one or two that I wouldn't have paid the cash for if I had had it. My buddy owned several of these, actually sent one back because the bore was much as you describe: a piece of sewer-pipe with a small amount of 'threading' in parts. But most of them were quite nice, had lttle stickers on the fore-ends to show which big matches they had been shot in.
The aperture sights were very good if a little obtrusive. Usually, they didn't last too long around here; if my buddy liked the way the thing shot with irons, the irons came off, drilling and tapping was done and monumental amounts of money were expended on optics and then there would be a beat-up old German Mauser out at the range wearing its nice Danish barrel and its Kahles scope and making itty-bitty little holes.
My friend was fascinated by the long, long lists of casualties of the Boer War which he saw in the churches around Glasgow and Cumbernauld when he lived there, right after the war. He wanted to find out what the rifles of that period, and later, COULD be MADE to do. This generally involved a careful and lengthy evaluation of the rifle starting with surplus ammo and proceeding onward to handloads mimicking military loads, then to developing specific loads for each rifle. It took a long time and it was a lot of trouble, but I sure learned a lot. Generally, we would play around with a couple of rifles at a time and it sometimes took a couple of years of testing to get one shooting what he thought was its absolute best. One test series we ran took 4 years; that was with a Moisin-Nagant 91/30, 1943 date. First thing each day at the range, the MN was fired 3 rounds from the 325 line, summer, winter, spring, fall, light's up, light's down, rain or shine. The first group was well over a foot (with Soviet-era sniping ammo) but the last dozen didn't get outside a 3x5 card: not bad at all for a $139 rifle, complete with all equipment and bayonet.
Brazilian 1908 (the first rifle we tested) settled in about point-five MOA
Kar98k Norwegian .30-'06 just kept shooting 1 inch at 300, time after time
P.-'14s we generally could get down to half an inch if the bore was nice
P.-'17s were generally BSA conversions and can be made to shoot about 1/2 MOA reliably and repeatably.
We started with a 14-inch group from an Aussie 1918 SMLE and got that down to 7/16 at 100 yards. Gave up at that point and never did scope it. I have that one today.
My HMS Canada Ross, fed what it wants, could keep up with the Norski Mauser at 100 but I never tried it at the longer ranges because my eyes aren't good enough and we didn't want to scope that one. It shot 5/16 of an inch half a dozen times in a row.
We were shooting generally 2-shot 'called groups': you start with a cold barrel and fire your round, then a follow-up roughly a minute later. The idea was to simulate hunting or sniping conditions and determine just what the rifle COULD do. All shooting was off sandbags. If a rifle shot well enough, it often was loaned out for a shoot at Shilo or at the local matches out at Wolverine to see what it would do in competition against SSGs and AIs.... with ammo, of course.
The Danish Target Rifles in 6.5mm had to shoot well under an inch or he got rid of them. The 7.62 Danish rifle which we bought as a barreled action with bolt shot a lilttle over half an inch regularly, right in with the 6.5s.
And I am still on the lookout for one of those "English" barrels!
The aperture sights were very good if a little obtrusive. Usually, they didn't last too long around here; if my buddy liked the way the thing shot with irons, the irons came off, drilling and tapping was done and monumental amounts of money were expended on optics and then there would be a beat-up old German Mauser out at the range wearing its nice Danish barrel and its Kahles scope and making itty-bitty little holes.
My friend was fascinated by the long, long lists of casualties of the Boer War which he saw in the churches around Glasgow and Cumbernauld when he lived there, right after the war. He wanted to find out what the rifles of that period, and later, COULD be MADE to do. This generally involved a careful and lengthy evaluation of the rifle starting with surplus ammo and proceeding onward to handloads mimicking military loads, then to developing specific loads for each rifle. It took a long time and it was a lot of trouble, but I sure learned a lot. Generally, we would play around with a couple of rifles at a time and it sometimes took a couple of years of testing to get one shooting what he thought was its absolute best. One test series we ran took 4 years; that was with a Moisin-Nagant 91/30, 1943 date. First thing each day at the range, the MN was fired 3 rounds from the 325 line, summer, winter, spring, fall, light's up, light's down, rain or shine. The first group was well over a foot (with Soviet-era sniping ammo) but the last dozen didn't get outside a 3x5 card: not bad at all for a $139 rifle, complete with all equipment and bayonet.
Brazilian 1908 (the first rifle we tested) settled in about point-five MOA
Kar98k Norwegian .30-'06 just kept shooting 1 inch at 300, time after time
P.-'14s we generally could get down to half an inch if the bore was nice
P.-'17s were generally BSA conversions and can be made to shoot about 1/2 MOA reliably and repeatably.
We started with a 14-inch group from an Aussie 1918 SMLE and got that down to 7/16 at 100 yards. Gave up at that point and never did scope it. I have that one today.
My HMS Canada Ross, fed what it wants, could keep up with the Norski Mauser at 100 but I never tried it at the longer ranges because my eyes aren't good enough and we didn't want to scope that one. It shot 5/16 of an inch half a dozen times in a row.
We were shooting generally 2-shot 'called groups': you start with a cold barrel and fire your round, then a follow-up roughly a minute later. The idea was to simulate hunting or sniping conditions and determine just what the rifle COULD do. All shooting was off sandbags. If a rifle shot well enough, it often was loaned out for a shoot at Shilo or at the local matches out at Wolverine to see what it would do in competition against SSGs and AIs.... with ammo, of course.
The Danish Target Rifles in 6.5mm had to shoot well under an inch or he got rid of them. The 7.62 Danish rifle which we bought as a barreled action with bolt shot a lilttle over half an inch regularly, right in with the 6.5s.
And I am still on the lookout for one of those "English" barrels!
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"DK" under Crown is Danish military proof marks, in which in this case "DK" stands for "Dansk Kontrol" (Danish Control). Often the "DK" also stands for "Denmark".
I have one M38 Swedish Mauser which has been stamped with the "DK" under Crown proof stamp.
It could likely be a danish armorers work, who after WW2 converted a leftover German occupational forces 8x57 Mauser to a 6.5x55 ?
3500 members of the Swedish wartime trained "Den Danske Brigade" were mostly armed with Swedish Mausers, as well as other, standart Swedish military weapons, and shipped to Denmark from Sweden on May 5, 1945.
For at least into the midle fifties, Swedish Mausers in 6.5x55 caliber were used along with US supplied weapons in Danish military service, in which a large number of Beretta made Garand's made their way into Danish service.
It appears that the Danish armorers stopped using the "DK" under Crown proof mark, when the Garand's and P-17 were introduced into Danish service ?
Also, I have previously only encountered the Danish "DK" under Crown proof mark in Swedish supplied 6.5x55 Mausers to Danish military, and a German Mauser, converted to a 6.5x55 with Danish proof mark is new to me. It might be rare.
Thanks for sharing.
I have one M38 Swedish Mauser which has been stamped with the "DK" under Crown proof stamp.
It could likely be a danish armorers work, who after WW2 converted a leftover German occupational forces 8x57 Mauser to a 6.5x55 ?
3500 members of the Swedish wartime trained "Den Danske Brigade" were mostly armed with Swedish Mausers, as well as other, standart Swedish military weapons, and shipped to Denmark from Sweden on May 5, 1945.
For at least into the midle fifties, Swedish Mausers in 6.5x55 caliber were used along with US supplied weapons in Danish military service, in which a large number of Beretta made Garand's made their way into Danish service.
It appears that the Danish armorers stopped using the "DK" under Crown proof mark, when the Garand's and P-17 were introduced into Danish service ?
Also, I have previously only encountered the Danish "DK" under Crown proof mark in Swedish supplied 6.5x55 Mausers to Danish military, and a German Mauser, converted to a 6.5x55 with Danish proof mark is new to me. It might be rare.
Thanks for sharing.
I have a Danish M52 like the one below - a M98 action rebarelled with a Schultz and Larsen barrel to 6.5x55. The Danes installed a rear sight very much like on the Garand, and the gun then familiarized them to the Garand then in service in Denmark.
Could you please post a pic of the full gun?
Could you please post a pic of the full gun?
Well, if the rifles you fellows picked up mostly looked as good as Andy's, you must have got the pick of the litter. The barrele receiver I have looks like a pin cushion and bore is non existent. The other three I know of aren't any better.
Good for you fellows. It's great to get a decent shooter at bargain prices.
Good for you fellows. It's great to get a decent shooter at bargain prices.
I like to add, that the Danish Military proof marke, "DK" under Crown, is located just above the chamber.
I was also looking for this Danish military proof marke on my sproterized Dansih Krag, but could only locate the Crown, which also are located right on top of the chamber.
All military Danish Krag, are supposed to be proof stamped with this "DK" under Crown stamp.
Interesting to view these German Mausers, which have by Danish armorers, been converted to 6.5x55, as well as instaling adjustable peep sigths. However, I doubt that the reasons for this conversion "was to familiarize the soldiers to the Garand", since Danish recruits were trained in use of the Garand, rights away.
I believe that these Danish conversion of the German Mauser to fire the
6.5x55 cartridge was to supplement the Swedish Mausers at hand just after the WW2, as well as the plentful supply of the Swedish 6.5x55 ammo, and before the 30-06 P-17 and Garand's started to arrive in Denmark, in which both calibers served alongside each others, well into the fiftieh's ?
I was also looking for this Danish military proof marke on my sproterized Dansih Krag, but could only locate the Crown, which also are located right on top of the chamber.
All military Danish Krag, are supposed to be proof stamped with this "DK" under Crown stamp.
Interesting to view these German Mausers, which have by Danish armorers, been converted to 6.5x55, as well as instaling adjustable peep sigths. However, I doubt that the reasons for this conversion "was to familiarize the soldiers to the Garand", since Danish recruits were trained in use of the Garand, rights away.
I believe that these Danish conversion of the German Mauser to fire the
6.5x55 cartridge was to supplement the Swedish Mausers at hand just after the WW2, as well as the plentful supply of the Swedish 6.5x55 ammo, and before the 30-06 P-17 and Garand's started to arrive in Denmark, in which both calibers served alongside each others, well into the fiftieh's ?
