Help Identify an old Percussion Rifle I was Given

P

Patrick Gidlet

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My father in law gave me this old rifle, it'd been kicking around the house for a long time. I've been looking around but can't figure out what it is. Seems like it might be some kind of Brunswick, but the rifling isn't right but I don't know much about black powder guns. Any help would be hugely appreciated. I'm not sure if it's a reproduction or an antique, but I don't care either way. I'm gunna clean it up a bit and put it on the wall.

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I can post more pictures, but I only have crappy 3G internet because I live in the boonies.
 
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I don't think it is a Brunswick unless it has two deep wide rifling grooves and a notch on either side where the rifling groove meets the muzzle. While it is tempting to call it a military rifle because of the captive ramrod, I don't see any provision for a bayonet. As Steppenwolf said, a good photo of the lock plate would help considerably.

cheers mooncoon
 
Here are a few more pictures that I took. It does look strikingly similar to the one in the link mrclean89 posted.

I'll take a picture of the top of the barrel today, we're just unpacking from a move.

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Not sure why that one pic is upside down, it is right side up everywhere else.
 
Beautiful old carbine!!!

It is one I would be proud to own!

Looks like a cavalry carbine Enfield of a early pattern, I think I see provision for a saddle ring bar....Tabernaque!

Frankly this is a very desirable carbine, cleaning it up would be a pleasure!

Amazing!

Your Father in law must like you ALOT!

If you fix it up and make her beautiful again I bet it would win big points with him!
 
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Any advice on how to go about cleaning it up would be greatly appreciated. I just moved to Thunder Bay so I don't know if anyone is local who would know a thing or two.

I was thinking about using an electrolysis tank to de-rust it, then lightly rubbing with bronze wool and oil. Not sure how easily it might come apart, which is scary. It has a good crack behind the action which might need to be reglued also.

It's been in the garage of my inlaws place since I've known them, and apparently he found it in a garden shed of a friends in the Stoney Creek area.
 
Electrolysis will strip down to bare metal. Don't do that.
Get some oil on it to prevent further rusting.
You want to find out exactly what you have.
Look carefully for any proof marks or other stamps which might help identification.
 
Forget about the tank idea please!!!! Soak each screw point with some penetrating oil. Make sure you have a screwdriver that fits as exactly as you can manage into the screw heads to prevent spalling, and keep trying the oil and force until you can get them moving. When you have it apart, clean the metal work with oil to remove the surface rust and oil, and then gently rub with very fine steel wool and oil. If there is wood glue in the split, use vinegar to soften it until it becomes gummy and you can remove it by hand. Take your time, be respectful of any markings and age. You have the opportunity to restore a nice piece of history you lucky son of a gun!
 
Patrick, no don't use any harsh cleaning methods...just don't ha ha ha!!
The stock damage can be repaired and pegged to make it as strong as it ever was.

To clean the metal, until you know what you have, some good oil and a rag is a great start, you might have something very interesting there!

The only vigorous cleaning I would do at this point would be to start on that bore with a phosphor bronze brush on a ram rod!

I'm moving back up north in a few months "april" we will be taking possession of a house outside Elliot Lake, If your of a mind, I would be happy to let you use my cleaning/repairing kit and whatnot, you can look at different repaired antique arms and get some ideas "lots of fish in the local lakes aswell to make it extra worth while".

Could be linked to a historic regiment, maybe popped off some rascal Fenian raiders who knows....Its a hell of a cool rifle!
 
Ok I will forget the electro-tank ha ha. I'll get some penetrating oil on it and see how easily it comes apart, but I'm not in any rush as its been around for quite some time and I want it to come out right.

The neat thing about it is the house it came from is a very old cottage in Stoney Creek/Winona along the lake shore. I can find out more about where it came from hopefully.

Thanks for the help, I'd love to see some similar rifles if I'm ever in the Elliot Lake area, maybe worth a drive this summer.
 
Markings are probably Turkish or Egyptian, obviously in Arabic. Resembles an Enfield 1859 Cavalry Carbine, but the guard seems to come from a Brunswick and the trigger looks like something locally made in the East in the 19th Century. If there is no Crown & Enfield mark on the lockplate, it's either a trade pattern carbine of some sort or one of the many copies of British arms that were made in the Middle to Far East in those times. The crown stamp on the buttplate tang looks like a local attempt to copy British markings.

I would vacuum off the dust and leave it alone. As long as it is always stored in a warm, dry place it won't deteriorate any further. Right now it has the patina of a century and half of use and abuse on it. Restoration is a job for an expert, or else it will just become another buggered up old gun that looks like it was put together in some bazaar to sell to toursists. If you leave it alone, it will retain what value it has. The rust has gone too far to "restore" it IMO. It is a relic wall hanger and should be left as such without being over-cleaned. These old guns are like antique furniture: if you strip off the patina you strip off half to two thirds of the value.
 
This sounds like good advice. I was thinking it could have some Indian connection, and was looking at these http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/10964/HEIC-Type-C-Musket#.UOXHRG-_LHg
 which seem to have some similarities, but the markings do certainly look to be Arabic or Indian. I think I will leave it alone for the time being, maybe wipe it down with some oil and a cloth and clean out the dirt around the trigger.

Just need to find a classy way to hang it on the wall, luckily my wife loves guns as much as I do.
 
IMHO it is an Indian made copy of a Pattern 1856 Cavalry Carbine made as a smoothbore differing id details like the hook on the trigger guard and the spring retained bands.
 
Stamp on buttplate may be of Turkish origin, similar to the Turkish Toughra .


ht tp://enfield-snider.com/Markings%20-%20Lock%20Plate%20-%20InDetail%20Arabic.htm
 
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