Help identify cap & ball

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GuyGeorges

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Hi,
Can you help me identify this firearm?
http://s613.beta.photobucket.com/user/guygeorges/library/Cap%20and%20ball
It was given to me some forty years ago by my older brother who was a gun collector.
Sadly he died soon after. I think I remember him saying that he shot the gun but I can’t remember anything else.
Any information you could give me would be appreciated.
The barrel is 32 inches long; it is smooth bore; diameter approx. 0.75 inch
Thanks ,
GuyGeorges
 
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Are you sure there is no maker's marks on the barrel at all? It's hard to believe that such a nicely done piece would not be stamped with markings on the barrel.

I can't imagine why but it may be under the stock if you're sure that there's nothing on the upper part of the barrel. Perhaps take the barrel out of the stock and check.
 
Well its looks like a high end gun for sure. Have you taken the barrel off ?

If not remove the barrel and take a picture of the underside there must be marks on this gun. Also get some chalk and rub it on the barrel near the breech and you might see some faint markings.

Cheers, McLean
 
To me, it looks like a very nicely-made London gun. That being said, I wonder if it might be a Belgian-made copy, something like a W. Richards. The style is perfectly classic for the time, short forend, English square-breech, deeply curved express hammer, etc. a real beauty. I would shoot it if it were mine. Definitely I concur with the other posters, pull the key, remove the ramrod, pull the hammer to half-####, lift the barrel out (it should be hooked-breech), and check the proofs. It would be interesting to find out if the proofs are Belgian, Birmingham, or London. Looks to be about 14-13 gauge. Let us know what you find out.
 
gabrielguitars said:
To me, it looks like a very nicely-made London gun. That being said, I wonder if it might be a Belgian-made copy, something like a W. Richards. The style is perfectly classic for the time, short forend, English square-breech, deeply curved express hammer, etc. a real beauty. I would shoot it if it were mine. Definitely I concur with the other posters, pull the key, remove the ramrod, pull the hammer to half-####, lift the barrel out (it should be hooked-breech), and check the proofs. It would be interesting to find out if the proofs are Belgian, Birmingham, or London. Looks to be about 14-13 gauge. Let us know what you find out.
Click to expand...

Thank you guys for your answers.
I am out of town for a few days, but as soon as I come back I will buy a magnifying glass and take a good look throughout the gun and see if I can find some markings.
A question: I know nothing about old firearms: What do you mean by the key ?
Is it this part on the right side of the picture?
http://s613.beta.photobucket.com/user/guygeorges/media/DSC_0231.jpg.html
how do I take it out safely ?
Thanks for your time and sorry for those newbie questions
 
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Yup. Remove the rod. Place the lock on half ####. Push the key - wedge - bolt - out. It probably won't come out all the way. On better guns, which yours is, it will be captive, and will be retained by a tiny pin. Don't use the bigger hammer approach.
There should be proof marks on the breech of the barrel, plus a gauge stamp, and perhaps the barrel maker's initials.
 
How about copying the link at the bottom of the box below the image (on photobucket) All I get from your link is "image not found". The bottom line if copied and pasted into the message will open and display without having to do anything further

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
How about copying the link at the bottom of the box below the image (on photobucket) All I get from your link is "image not found". The bottom line if copied and pasted into the message will open and display without having to do anything further

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...
There was an error at first, I corrected the link later and checked it , it is working fine for me
All the photos are in the same library in Photobucket see my first post
Hope this is better
GuyGeorges
 
tiriaq said:
Yup. Remove the rod. Place the lock on half ####. Push the key - wedge - bolt - out. It probably won't come out all the way. On better guns, which yours is, it will be captive, and will be retained by a tiny pin. Don't use the bigger hammer approach.
There should be proof marks on the breech of the barrel, plus a gauge stamp, and perhaps the barrel maker's initials.
Click to expand...
Thanks,
I will do that as soon as I am back home and will post the result when done.
Thanks again
GuyGeorges
 
Afraid I am still getting page not found message. Don't know why it works for Tiriaq and not for me. The image link at the bottom of the window should display the image automatically on gunnutz

cheers mooncoon
 
Hi: Very nice firearm you have, could be made by one of the Birmingham gun makers On the bottom of the barrel it will have the Birmingham proofs if made in England, I have a very similar gun. On mine I have two Birmingham proofs on the bottom of the barrel. I can see no gauge marking or any other marks on the whole gun. The lock has the name Styan on it. mine is missing the fore end tip,:( one thing I would like to make or have made or steal so better keep yours hidden :) I have fired mine years ago and I am sure my Uncle shot it.:rolleyes: Cheers John
 
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GuyGeorges: When you get home and when you have time and if you would, could you take about three macro pics of fore end cap and send them to my e-mail
jackanddiane @sasktel.net A question for you guys on here. That cap would be pewter or what, also if it is, is there any already poured nose caps that could be fitted --attached or is the only solution to pour one on the gun. This may be more than I can do. :(
 
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If it is a poured cap, you would have to cast it in place. The odds of finding one that accurately fit your gun is virtually non existent. I am told that the"mold" can be a reasonably strong, non corrugated cardboard taped or clamped to the stock. I suppose a piece of aluminum flashing would also work and hopefully not stick to the metal

cheers mooncoon
 
Popsicle sticks taped around the forend/barrel junction works well. They are strong enough to break free of the pewter, and soft enough to file off if they don't!
 
are you sure that it was not a buffalo horn cap? The pewter caps that I have seen have had a hole drilled through the thin section at the end of the stock and countersunk on the inside. The pewter fills the hole and that portion functions much like a screw. The wooden end also has been a straight section rather than curved or hollow ground like yours. Yours looks more like a horn cap had been glued in place

cheers mooncoon
 
Hmmm , You may be right! No I don't know it was pewter, just saw the one of guygeorges and assumed. When I look at it there is as you say no holes for the pewter, to hold it on. The only thing is if the pewter went back underneath the barrel , there is room and a hole there. I would like to see what guygeorges looks like, inside barrel channel too.
 
Any pewter/white metal caps I've seen on British shotguns were not cast in place.
Sure looks like old glue residue in the photo.
Horn would certainly be appropriate.

The Birmingham gun trade turned out untold thousands of finished and semi-finished guns. Just because a gun has a name on it doesn't mean that person or shop actually made the gun.
 
The Birmingham gun trade turned out untold thousands of finished and semi-finished guns. Just because a gun has a name on it doesn't mean that person or shop actually made the gun.[/QUOTE]

I have modified my original post: Thanks for the correction. I understand completely about gun makers using locks and barrels and other parts from another maker , I have Remington lock on Wingert barrel and Golcher locks on unknown. I do also know there were many Birmingham gun makers. I am sure the experts on here will be better able to help the original poster.
 
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