Help identifying a Lee rifle.

hardek

hardek

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I had this rifle given to me many years ago. I just recently dug it out to work on it. I wanted to mount a safety as it was missing the safety. But the one from my no.1 mk 3 is different.All the rest of the rifle seems to be like it except a slot in the side of the action.It seems to be for a magazine cutoff. It reads Lee Speed Patent with BSA co. under that on the rear stock band. Please help me by telling me what it is. Pics below.
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The "Lee Speed" safety is mounted on the cocking piece. Looks like yours has had the bolt replaced. Not a cheap fix.
 
Long enfield bolts/parts are getting hard to find. Posting an add on the EE may be your best bet.

As for the "safety holes" on the left side they are for the volley sight aperture.

The assembly looks like this:
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Rifles marked as "Lee-Speed"s generally are COMMERCIAL rifles built to the standard of the Mark II Lee-Metford.

They were introduced into British military Service in 1892 and manufactured until they were superseded by the official adoption of the Lee-Enfield rifle in 1895 (manufacture got into high gear in 1896).

The difference between a Lee-Metford and a Lee-Enfield was the rifling inside the barrel. Metford rifling was 7 segmental grooves, 1 turn in 10 inches, Left; Enfield rifling was 5 grooves, Left, 1 turn in 10 inches, lands and grooves of equal width, grooves quite deep. An Enfield-rifled barrel would outlast a Metford-rifled tube close to 3 to 1 with the highly-erosive Cordite Mark I ammunition in use at that time, although the Metford barrel was much easier to clean. Apart from the barrels, a Mark II Lee-Metford was practically identical with the Mark I Lee-Enfield, the one difference being the cocking-piece-mounted safety on the LE. Original Lee-Metford Mark II rifles had only the half-#### safety.

"Lee-Speed", thanks to the commercial sporting rifles made by BSA, W. W. Greener and a few others, became a synonym for a fast-handling, fast-working high-capacity smokeless-powder bolt rifle. For this reason, as well as sales of military-pattern rifles to small formations, "Lee-Speed" marked Lee-Metford rifles continued to be manufactured in small numbers well past the date at which they became obsolescent by military standards.

I have a Lee-Speed built commercially from an original military-pattern rifle which likely served in the Boer War and then was sold for surplus. It was rebuilt completely by A.G. Parker with one of their own 23-inch barrels installed. It has a gold front sight and is their serial number 0019. I am informed that they built it approximately 1920. I also have a full-wood military Mark II Lee-Metford marked as built by BSA as a "Lee-Speed". It has Service markings on the buttplate. It is one of the rifles used aboard the old HMS Calypso (renamed HMS Briton) and used to train the Newfoundland Regiment at the outbreak of the Great War. Hmmmm.... have to take the old girl out to the range this summer.....

You have a Fine Toy, sir! You will find that screws and many parts from an SMLE will work on your rifle, although the knuckle-joint trigger/sear is peculiar to pre-1902 rifles.

Welcome to the Worshipful Society of Collectors and Enthusiasts of All Strange Things Enfield!



Steve: You didn't tell me that you had a NAVY rifle!!!!! You will have to bring it along next time. My Lee-Speed wants to meet her! So does the SMLE I***!
 
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George, yep mine is indeed marked "N" for naval service.

I keep forgetting to bring it out to show you!! If I can find a barrel band the rifle may be wearing a full military forend by the time you see it!!
 
Boys, I have an old timer, 1897, .22 trainer, full wood, still has the volley sights front & rear. It is also marked "N".
I will try to remember to bring it to our shoot at Virden this summer.
 
@ KJOHN: I'll bring along the Lee-Speed mark II and the SMLE Mark I*** and they can sit and chat about the Old Days. Perhaps John will allow his Assegai to listen in; it still doesn't take too well to Martini-Henrys!

To the OP: Kindly read carefully what I posted regarding BOLTS. The proper Bolt for a Lee-Speed should have no Safety apart from the half-#### notch. SOME of these rifles were retrofitted with Enfield-rifled barrels, in which case there will be a half-inch-high letter "E" on the flat on top of the Chamber. This flat, BTW, is called the "Knox's Form" although nobody knows why; the reason is lost in history. When Barrels were replaced, SOME rifles would have a newer Bolt with the cocking-piece "flag" safety fitted, but NOT ALL. If the Serial Number of your Bolt matches the Serial Number of the Body and Barrel, then you have your ORIGINAL Bolt...... and you sure don't want to switch that one out!

But a Bolt with only a half-#### Safety is correct for a Mark II Lee-Metford and, if it is a Commercial rifle such as yours, for a Lee-Speed as well.

Just wanted to be sure to clear this up.

You have a Wonderful Toy for which many of us (and I expressly include myself) would CHEERFULLY commit various and sundry degrees of mayhem, slaughter and other anti-social activities. She's a Keeper for sure. Congratulations!
 
So I brought the rifle to the dugald gun show, for Jim Harrison to check out. He gave me some interesting info, saying this rifle was built between 1891and 1899. It does have the correct bolt as the numbers match. BUT the barrel is pooched shot out by the cordite of old rounds. He declined to buy it or trade it. I will not be firing this rifle after his info. Oh and yes it uses the half #### safety. I think I may list it here and let someone else rebarrel it. Thanks all for the info I learned a lot about old lee rifles.
 
Slightly-oversized CAST bullets driven to moderate velocities by a quick powder could still give you a fun old thing to shoot with. So long as you don't have militant Boer or Fuzzy Wuzzy neighbours, the actual power does not matter much because you are not taking it into combat.

My own ex-RN-ex-Newfoundland Lee-Speed Mark II has been shot out as well. Metford barrels did not last that well and the original Cordite was extremely hot. I am borrowing a Lyman .314 mould (until I can afford one: OAP is not the easiest thing to live on) and will be shooting a couple of my old ones with slugs cast from wheelweights, gas checks to protect the bases and also to distribute the slap from the 13-grain charge of Red Dot. These loads will develop about half to 2/3 of military power...... and that's all I need for blasting at tin cans. If necessary, Bambi's brother would succumb to such a projectile in short order, were it placed properly. Nice thing about this load, developed by Canadian ammunition expert C.E. Harris, is that your barrel will last about 5/8 of forever: it has very close to zero effect on the bore. The slap on the base from the very fast Red Dot powder FORCES the bullet to fatten up just forward of the base, fill the bore and take the rifling.

There are a few fellows on this board who are using exactly this load to preserve their ancient shootin' irons in good condition. No reason you can't do the same..... if you LIKE the old rifle.

Rebarreling is not an option: there have been no new barrels made since about 1908. Any new barrel would have to be custom-made and would run about $500 installed.... and still would have the wrong kind of rifling and NO inspectors' marks. Much cheaper...... and much more fun..... to work around with what you have and MAKE something of it.

Just sayin'.......

I like to see the Old Ones on the range and I like to see people HAPPY with their old Lees. That's why I'm being such a nuisance!
 
Smellie,

"This flat, BTW, is called the "Knox's Form" although nobody knows why; the reason is lost in history".

Blackmore wrote that the Knoxform is named for Henry Nock (British Military Firearms 1962, Blackmore, Howard Pg. 110).
 
smellie said:
SOME of these rifles were retrofitted with Enfield-rifled barrels, in which case there will be a half-inch-high letter "E" on the flat on top of the Chamber. This flat, BTW, is called the "Knox's Form" although nobody knows why; the reason is lost in history.
Click to expand...

Invented by Henry Nock and originally known as "Nock's Form". Spelling corrupted to "Knox" over time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Nock

(Didn't see your post till now dafydd!)

Anyway, back to the rifle: you could make something out of that Hardek, but it will be some work. I assume the bolt number does not match?

Post a few photos of the markings why don't you?

If the bolt is wrong you'll have to lap it in so that the recoil lugs bear evenly, otherwise accuracy will suffer and if the smaller lug takes more of the load it will crack in time. Valve grinding compound and patience is required.

You could get a set of the sporting wood made in the 50s and 60s for Parker Hale and others and adapt that to the rifle, but it looks a bit too modern really.

Is the barrel really excellent? Otherwise no point in bothering IMHO.
 
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