Help IDing Two Muzzle Loaders, Please :)

[V70R]

Hello,

I am looking to ID or get some info on these to muzzle loaders, they were part of a package deal I made a bit ago, I do not know much about them and having really had the time to do the research I wanted to do. I am hoping the community can help me out with this

I was talking with some one about these and he was thinking the first one is French or Scandinavian design and not sure about the second.

First:

[/url]20151212_112352 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_112428 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_112437 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_112448 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_112452 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_112500 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_112537 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_112547 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_112551 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]


Second:
I know this one has an Ottoman Crest on the butt, I am assuming this came into the Ottoman army's (or something like that) possession at some point in its life and got the crest. It also looks like they modified or replaced the bands. And it looks like the rear site was installed during armature hour haha.

[/url]20151212_173254 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_173316 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_173301 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_173329 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_173401 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_173423 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_173434 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_173455 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20151212_173558 by O1 R1, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[NaturalPath]

The first one definitely looks like a French Cavalry carbine or, musketoon, which would have likely started life as a flintlock and, was converted to a cap lock in the mid-1800's.

 

[V70R]

Thanks for the info!

 

[mooncoon]

The first one definitely looks like a French Cavalry carbine or, musketoon, which would have likely started life as a flintlock and, was converted to a cap lock in the mid-1800's.

the nose cap on the first one makes me think French but I can't see any sign of a pivot location if it was converted from flint. Also while probably French, Switzerland in the 1840s also used percussion Charlevilles. If it was Swiss, I am not sure if you would find a cross symbol stamped on it because it did not become a unified country until 1848

cheers mooncoon

 

[V70R]

Thanks Mooncoon!

 

[hpschiem]

The first gun is a Prussian m1809/1839 conversion musket made by Saarn Arsenal, it has been shortened at one time, quite a few of those were imported during first years of the civil war as secondary arms

 

[V70R]

thanks so much for that info hp!