help me build a lightweight sub-.275 cal groundhog detonator.

prosper said:
he specifically stated that his goal was to 'detonate' groundhogs. A 243 won't, at least not as consistently, and not anywhere nearly as extensively as a 25 will. /QUOTE]

Are we talking groundhogs? Like Groundhog Day? Are you kidding? Detonate? Somehow I doubt you've ever used a .22-.250 on them - a .243 with a 55-58 gr @ 4000+ fps is as close to vaporization as you can get and in spite of the miraculous "hog" fractionation of the .224 bullets the .243 is as explosive as you can get and still uses a frag bullet, minimal ricochets (more like none) brick of C-4 not included. If you really want to "detonate" them use a simple stick of dynamite!
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an eastern ground HOG is a FAR different critter than a western GOPHER.

The usual result from a 243 is a bang-flop, generally no 'air time' or 'helicopters.'
 
prosper said:
he specifically stated that his goal was to 'detonate' groundhogs. A 243 won't, at least not as consistently, and not anywhere nearly as extensively as a 25 will. /QUOTE]

Are we talking groundhogs? Like Groundhog Day? Are you kidding? Detonate? Somehow I doubt you've ever used a .22-.250 on them - a .243 with a 55-58 gr @ 4000+ fps is as close to vaporization as you can get and in spite of the miraculous "hog" fractionation of the .224 bullets the .243 is as explosive as you can get and still uses a frag bullet, minimal ricochets (more like none) If you really want to "detonate" them use a simple stick of dynamite or a brick of C-4! Your ballistics don't even begin to justify a .25 caliber. Do some research on what's offered for bullets and understand why "varmint" bullets generally are offered in .17, .20, .223, ,224 and .243:cheers:
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Am I repeating myself? "an eastern ground HOG is a FAR different critter than a western GOPHER."
If my 58 gr Barnes Varminators won't do to your "eastern" groundhogs what they'll do to a "western" chuck (incidentally, the same load I use for coyotes and wolves) then I stand corrected humbly. Somehow I doubt it. Check your ballistics and any measurement of "smack" you can find will show that there's about as much need for a .257 for groundhogs as there is for a .460 for (I'm trying to think of a varmint larger than a groundhog in the east but the only one comes to mind is a Liberal) a coyote
 
Look up a DVD titled 'Hogs down range' for thousands of videotaped groundhog kills with cartridges from 22lr's to 45-70's at ranges from ~50 yards to 1000 yards.

If you want the 'lift off' effect, entry stakes are the 25 cals.
 
prosper said:
A 25-06 pushing a 75 grain VMAX (BC .290) at 3700-3800fps is damn near identical to a 243 pushing a 58 grain VMAX (BC .250) at 3800-3900 ballistics-wise, and much better than a 22-250 pushing a 55 grain VMAX (BC of .255) at 3600; and the 25 is packing a HELLUVALOT more 'thump' when it connects
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:onCrack: 100 ft lbs difference in impact energy @ 300 yards :popCorn: (243 vs 25-06)

:jerkit:
 
I deliberately didn't say 'energy,' I said 'thump' (though I would still take issue with your numbers; it's more like 200ft.lbs and it is significant, it amounts to about a quarter of the total energy remaining.) But we all know that killing power has little to do with energy anyway, and more to do with bullet mass and frontal area. And especially with varmints, the rotation of the bullet has a lot to do with the acrobatics observed - it's torque, and it's why airborne critters tend to spin when launched. A larger diameter bullet has a lot more torque (it's a bigger wheel).
But - who really cares WHY it works; it just does. You don't have to understand 'why,' for it to make a very noticeable difference - go out and try; you'll see it.
 
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sbtennex said:
If my 58 gr Barnes Varminators won't do to your "eastern" groundhogs what they'll do to a "western" chuck (incidentally, the same load I use for coyotes and wolves) then I stand corrected humbly.
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they wont. a groundhog is much larger than a gopher, many people use the terms interchangeably but theyre nothing alike.
you dont get the results you get on these big ones as you do on gophers. gophers are the size of squirrels, yes you can blow them apart with small high-powered rounds, even .17 HMR does quite a number on squirrel sized game.

.223, .243, .22-250, .220 swift, etc will not 'vaporize' or blow up an Ontario groundhog, or at least ive never seen it happen in years of varminting.
the absolute worst ive seen on groundhogs is with a .243 with 85gr Federal Vshoks with Sierra Gameking BTHP (strange because this is not a dedicated varmint bullet) from about 100 yards, it turned it inside out and transported all of its innards about 10 feet behind it. interestingly, his next shot on a groundhog from slightly shorter range left no mark whatsoever, we flipped it over and couldnt even see an entry/exit hole.

groundhog:
groundhogphilyd1.jpg


gopher:
pd2ax1.jpg



what if we reintroduce reloading into the mix.
you can get Speer 90 grain TNT hollowpoints for the 270. thats 90 grains of varmint bullet at 3600 FPS. thats 400 FPS faster than a .243 with the same bullet. .270 could also double as a deer gun, and again if i get it in a Stevens thats a long action with a .30-06 bolt face that will give me a lot of options if i want to rebarrel down the road. i could even rebarrel to a .25-06 later on with just a new barrel.
 
Look at the Thompson Encore ... with a synthetic stock they are light and handy - and you can get just about any barrel/calibre you like for it.

I have a 223 and 270 -- both shoot pretty good but check out the 6mmBR on this site before you question the accuracy potential -- I was surprised!
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek055.html
 
at $800, i think the Thompson Encore is a little pricey for what it is - a simple hinge action with a plastic stock. if it was around $400 with replacement barrels going for $200 i would jump all over it, but $800 and $350 per barrel is a lot of money considering what they are.

if i was going to spend that much, i would squeeze my wallet a little bit more and get a Ruger #1 which is, IMHO, a much nicer gun.

the Encore does look a lot better than any of the NEF or H&R single-shots though, a real shame they cant make a nicer stock like that of the Encore on those rifles.
 
prosper said:
he specifically stated that his goal was to 'detonate' groundhogs. A 243 won't, at least not as consistently, and not anywhere nearly as extensively as a 25 will.
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Given the choice between the 243 and 257Roberts, I would not hesitate to pick the 257, but only because I like the 25cal better for personal reasons or preference.

Having said that ......... I doubt very much you'd see any difference if any between the two calibers using similar bullets at similar velocities while trying to "detonate" (or whatever that means) groundhogs. :rolleyes:




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prosper has the right idea. I shot a few of our 'gophers' with the .257 75Vmax and it never fails to impress. Bits and pieces literally scattered over ~ 20-30 yards. I imagine it would do what you want on a 'ground hog'.

We shot lots of 'ground hogs' with the 22LR growing up. Lots of them got down the hole, wish I'd had a 223 or 25-06 then.
 
yeah, one of the guys we go groundhogging with brought his kid along with his .22. he was shooting Stingers and Velocitors, which is about as good as it gets .22LR ammo-wise.

every hog the kid shot made it back down their hole alive, even if he shot them 10-20 feet from their mounds. i know he was hitting them because there were blood trails/spots. im pretty sure he was aiming COM instead of headshots, and headshots would have laid most of them out, but thats still poor performance. i despise the little pests but every animal - even rats - deserves a clean kill.
suffice to say the next year he was back with an old .222 Remmy 700 and had absolutely no problems killing them every time.
 
Enjoyed many years of blasting whistle pigs at varying distances in south western ontario. My favourite rifles were my Brno 601 .223 with 15X scope, action and barrel glass bedded, Sako HB 22-250 and my most favourite was my 6.5X55 Swede with Sierra 85gn HP at a chronoed 3300fps. Lil warm but 3/4" at 100 yards from the bench. As said earlier - less noise is better - and for that you can't beat the .224 and under say .204 and .17. My .02 :dancingbanana:

Bill
 
at $800, i think the Thompson Encore is a little pricey for what it is - a simple hinge action with a plastic stock. if it was around $400 with replacement barrels going for $200 i would jump all over it, but $800 and $350 per barrel is a lot of money considering what they are.

if i was going to spend that much, i would squeeze my wallet a little bit more and get a Ruger #1 which is, IMHO, a much nicer gun.

the Encore does look a lot better than any of the NEF or H&R single-shots though, a real shame they cant make a nicer stock like that of the Encore on those rifles.
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I completely agree with you that the Ruger #1 is a VERY much nicer gun - it is one of the most elegant guns made. BUT the average 'out of the box' Encore seems to shoot much better than the average Ruger 1..and do it more consistently. I also agree that it would be great if they would bring the prices down -- but then I think they would start to shoot like NEF's ... and even maybe Ruger's :D

Sako made a fairly light Hunter, chambered in 6PPC - that would be a pretty fine way to go and with the 85gr Noslers might even work for Ontario whitetail
 
Manbearpig, I to have hunted the Groundhog aka woodchuck or as I have come to know them as the savage woodbear.
I have uses 12gauge, 22rf, 225 Winchester, 22-250, 243 WCF, 257 Roberts 25-06, and yes the 270 WCF, and it is legal in Southern Ontario, bore size .270".
The most distructive load I have used is 85gr HPBT Sierras out of my 243's. Makes little holes going in and well it's hard to explain what the other side looks like because there usually isn't another side, and it matters not where you hit them. All the other center fires work well and the next best I have found was the 270 and 90 or 100gr HP. I have yet to try the Sierra 90gr HPBT in the 257 yet but this season is close at hand and I have the bullets.
One more point on the 243 and the 85 gr Sierras. I hit the east end of a west bound fox once and never did find all of the head.
257Roberts
 
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