help me choose a 308 target rifle

snakeyes76, you were vague about what kind of target shooting you want to do.

Above it was mentioned about F-Class but I don't know if that is part of your interest, but that got me to thinking.

I've been shooting F-Class pretty much since it started and have seen how the game has changed over the years. New bullets have become available that are longer than you are probably thinking.

These long high BC bullets are seated out so long (to maximize case capacity) that we run into problems ejecting a live round.

With this in mind, if you want to be competitive with a 308 then build it on an action made for a 30-06, that way you will have the stroke to eject the 185 Berger Jugg or probably heavier bullet you will eventually be shooting anyway.

My 223 for example, was built on a Defiance action (Rem 700 clone) for the same reason... To get the mag length and stroke I needed to feed and eject the loaded round seated to 2.620" long. Most 223 actions cannot do that, and mags need to be modified as well but it does work.

You also mentioned a 24 inch barrel... Nobody uses a 24 inch barrel who is serious about long range target shooting. You will want something longer... at least 26" or longer yet.
 
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Maple57 said:
snakeyes76, you were vague about what kind of target shooting you want to do.

I've been shooting F-Class pretty much since it started and have seen how the game has changed over the years. New bullets have become available that are longer than you are probably thinking.

These long high BC bullets are seated out so long (to maximize case capacity) that we run into problems ejecting a live round.

With this in mind, if you want to be competitive with a 308 then build it on an action made for a 30-06, that way you will have the stroke to eject the 185 Berger Jugg or probably heavier bullet you will eventually be shooting anyway.

You also mentioned a 24 inch barrel... Nobody uses a 24 inch barrel who is serious about long range target shooting. You will want something longer... at least 26" or longer yet.
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I have this problem with my Elite action and 2nd generation 200 Sierra MKs that I am using.
To eject a live round, I must remove the bolt... which is a bit tricky since the action uses a mechanical (Winchester M70 style – blade) ejector.
But since it arises very infrequently (I usually don't often have a reason to eject a live round)... its a minor inconvenience really.

For F class shooting most of the guys I've seen are running about 28" to 30ish"...get as much velocity as you can.
 
Brutus said:
Barnard, Angel 44 or Wichita 1375 actions. These are all single shot bolt action.
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Let's not forget RPA's, HHE Millennium's and Musgraves, heck even a single shot 40X or Sportco. Lots of options out there for single shot actions. Present in progress build right now is a single shot Barnard P in .308 in an Elisio prone stock.
 
OP is debating between 2 factory rifles for his first rifle and you guys are knee deep into custom builds...
Go Tikka and just start shooting!
 
Oh hey one more thing...

Anyone hear that Remington is talking about filing for bankruptcy for the second time in what 2 years?

There is also talk of the selling the brand to the Indians.

Still want one?

Personally, I think this once formidable brand is running on momentum of the past. Current quality is nothing like what originally made the brand successful.
 
snakeyes76 said:
i've been wanting to get into long range shooting for some time now but couldn't convince myself (& wife) i needed another gun lol
with this whole ban thing going on, i figured i need to grab one now in case mr. potatohead decides to ban more although i'm staying positive the CCFR is going to kick a$$ in court
that being said, i've been looking at the remington 700 PCR and heard some pretty good things about it but i can't get Tikka outta my mind ever since i tried the action on one at Sail a few months ago... it was night & day better than the remington .. like glass sliding through butter
the Tikka T3x CTR is in the same price range as the 700 PCR although it lacks a precision stock.
does it really make that much of a difference?
is the Tikka that much more accurate than the Remington?
have the QC issues been resolved with remington?
ideally i'd like it in the 24" barrel but i can't find any in stock anywhere
are there any others in that price range that would be just as good or better?
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What do you plan on using the rifle for? The snobs of the shooting world will say that if it isn't a single shot with a solid bottom receiver it isn't a "Real" Target rifle. That's a bunch of elitist horse sh!t but maybe a bit of clarification on what the intended purpose for the rifle is.
 
Not to start a caliber debate, but a 308 is outperformed by all of its little brothers (243,260,7mm08) for less recoil in each. The 6.5CM is popular with lots of different target ammo choices. You can reduce drop and wind drift and extend your maximum range just by choosing one of these and sticking with the same factory rifles. If I were purchasing an off the shelf rifle on a budget, I think I'd choose a heavier/longer barrel in a laminate stock. Too many of the cheap synthetic stocks have too much play in them for my liking. A well bedded rifle is a well bedded rifle - a V-Tact Space Blaster chassis isnt going to turn a good rifle into a magic one.
 
Further to caliber - .308 rifles can be superbly accurate, but past 500 or 600 meters, it really fades in comparison with some other calibers.

It isn't just a matter of flatness of trajectory; wind deflection is a major consideration.

Long range performance is greatly affected by the bullets used - and the velocities that can be achieved. Spend some time studying ballistic and loading tables, and consider the velocities that can actually be achieved. Longer barrels usually show a marked advantage because velocities can be maximized.
 
EC said:
What do you plan on using the rifle for? The snobs of the shooting world will say that if it isn't a single shot with a solid bottom receiver it isn't a "Real" Target rifle. That's a bunch of elitist horse sh!t but maybe a bit of clarification on what the intended purpose for the rifle is.
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You are correct that the OP needs to figure out his intended used. I have seen lots of people spend tons of hard earned cash on junk that won't do what they wanted to do or didn't do it well. If the OP's intention is to shoot TR or F Class a mag is not require. Same disciplines are limited by calibre. Some also have rifle or bullet weight limits. Some do not allow muzzle brakes. Some are barrel burners requiring a new barrel after 1200 rounds just to stay competitive.
 
Maple57 said:
snakeyes76, you were vague about what kind of target shooting you want to do.

Above it was mentioned about F-Class but I don't know if that is part of your interest, but that got me to thinking.

I've been shooting F-Class pretty much since it started and have seen how the game has changed over the years. New bullets have become available that are longer than you are probably thinking.

These long high BC bullets are seated out so long (to maximize case capacity) that we run into problems ejecting a live round.

With this in mind, if you want to be competitive with a 308 then build it on an action made for a 30-06, that way you will have the stroke to eject the 185 Berger Jugg or probably heavier bullet you will eventually be shooting anyway.

My 223 for example, was built on a Defiance action (Rem 700 clone) for the same reason... To get the mag length and stroke I needed to feed and eject the loaded round seated to 2.620" long. Most 223 actions cannot do that, and mags need to be modified as well but it does work.

You also mentioned a 24 inch barrel... Nobody uses a 24 inch barrel who is serious about long range target shooting. You will want something longer... at least 26" or longer yet.
Click to expand...

I'm not looking into competitive shooting right now.. so a custom build nor single shot rifle is not of any interest to me... i'm just looking for a rifle that can share ammo with something else i had that i lost in a boating accident and have tons of ammo for to get into longer range shooting ( a few hundred yards for now) hence 308. i'm looking for a good out of the box rifle that i can maybe later build further upon. would you still go with Tikka varmint or CTR vs lets say a savage axis II precision?
 
snakeyes76 said:
I'm not looking into competitive shooting right now.. so a custom build nor single shot rifle is not of any interest to me... i'm just looking for a rifle that can share ammo with something else i had that i lost in a boating accident and have tons of ammo for to get into longer range shooting ( a few hundred yards for now) hence 308. i'm looking for a good out of the box rifle that i can maybe later build further upon. would you still go with Tikka varmint or CTR vs lets say a savage axis II precision?
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I would recommend that you plan for how you might accessorize down the road. Consider after market stocks, mags, triggers etc.

Even if it's not your plan in the short term, at least you'll know if you have options.

You don't want to get stuck with something you can't upgrade and personalize.

Tikka is always real hard to beat out of the box and still lots of accessories down the road. You cant go wrong there.

Even if you did get a Rem 700, everyone knows them and tons of after market to fit. Not the greatest these days, but it will still get the job done.

Accuracy is in the barrel and if you shoot it enough, you'll be into a new premium barrel before long anyway.
 
Rem 783 HB
Savage (non axis) HB
Tikka HB
Howa/Wby HB
Rem 700 HB
Bergara

Any of the above will offer tons of smiles and give good service. All have an aftermarket now so you can upgrade in time as your tastes demand.

And the first thing to save for is a replacement match barrel. Once you have shot a quality barrel, you aren't going to be too keen on factory rifle barrels anymore.

Enjoy

Jerry
 
Personally I think .308 is the perfect trainer cartridge for someone dipping their toes into long range shooting.

There are a multitude of reasons why I think the .308 is an excellent training cartridge:

1. Plethora of excellent quality and reasonably priced match ammo. FGMM is a crowd favorite.
2. It's plenty capable to 1,200+ yards. Don't let people tell you that there's some invisible ~600-800m wall that the .308 hits. I've successfully taken 168 SMK's out to 1,100-1,200 yards on numerous occasions.
3. It's not as ballistically efficient as a 6.5 creedmoor and others - but this is a good thing for learning! You will be penalized a bit more for incorrect wind calls, you need to focus on making better wind calls, the wind will be a great teacher with this cartridge.
4. Sufficient recoil, which will punish any flaws you have while attempting to execute the fundamentals. The recoil will exploit any weakness in your fundamentals, I'm constantly reminded of this with my unbraked .308. Subconsciously I can get fundamentally lazy when shooting my 6BRA, there's hardly any recoil and I can get away with sloppy shooting. Definitely not the case with .308.
5. Excellent barrel life, unlike 6.5mm and especially 6mm cartridges.

Personally, I wouldn't let anyone talk you out of a .308.
 
kthomas said:
Personally I think .308 is the perfect trainer cartridge for someone dipping their toes into long range shooting.

There are a multitude of reasons why I think the .308 is an excellent training cartridge:

1. Plethora of excellent quality and reasonably priced match ammo. FGMM is a crowd favorite.
2. It's plenty capable to 1,200+ yards. Don't let people tell you that there's some invisible ~600-800m wall that the .308 hits. I've successfully taken 168 SMK's out to 1,100-1,200 yards on numerous occasions.
3. It's not as ballistically efficient as a 6.5 creedmoor and others - but this is a good thing for learning! You will be penalized a bit more for incorrect wind calls, you need to focus on making better wind calls, the wind will be a great teacher with this cartridge.
4. Sufficient recoil, which will punish any flaws you have while attempting to execute the fundamentals. The recoil will exploit any weakness in your fundamentals, I'm constantly reminded of this with my unbraked .308. Subconsciously I can get fundamentally lazy when shooting my 6BRA, there's hardly any recoil and I can get away with sloppy shooting. Definitely not the case with .308.
5. Excellent barrel life, unlike 6.5mm and especially 6mm cartridges.

Personally, I wouldn't let anyone talk you out of a .308.
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+1
Shot long range for 3+ years with nothing but .308, now that I’m getting into 6.5s it suddenly feels easier.
Still get plenty of 308 rounds shot per month, used as a cheap trainer with excellent barrel life next to my 6.5s.
 
snakeyes76 said:
I'm not looking into competitive shooting right now.. so a custom build nor single shot rifle is not of any interest to me... i'm just looking for a rifle that can share ammo with something else i had that i lost in a boating accident and have tons of ammo for to get into longer range shooting ( a few hundred yards for now) hence 308. i'm looking for a good out of the box rifle that i can maybe later build further upon. would you still go with Tikka varmint or CTR vs lets say a savage axis II precision?
Click to expand...

Tikka offers a lot more value for performance then Savage does. Savage is cheap, abut they do usually shoot good. But that cheap price comes at a cost. Manufacturing process, QA/QC, quality of raw materials, customer service, employee experience and skillset is all reflected in the price of a product. With how cheap Savage is, it leaves you wondering which of the following they are skimping on. You will pay more for the Tikka, but the difference in quality is obvious.

The aftermarket support for Tikka has been growing by leaps and bounds in the past few years, people are really starting to wake up to the value of Tikka, and companies are seeing all the opportunities to support this product with their own accessories. You can really dress up, modify and optimize a Tikka rifle, to grow with you as your shooting skills and preferences evolve.

While a bit more expensive then it's Remington and Savage counterparts, the Tikka is a much better value proposition, with the quality you are starting with out of the box.
 
So if I'm reading this right, the sweet spot might be one of the third-party rifles that maintain Rem700 compatibility, so that like the AR you have selection of various aftermarket parts while having something better than an actual Remington 700, especially with the times that company is going through presently.

And perhaps if one is new at the game, sending rounds out a factory barrel might just reach the point of being ready for a really good aftermarket replacement barrel both on the basis of it being worn out and at the point of having learned the rifle well enough to make good use of a great barrel at the same time.
 
snakeyes76 said:
I'm not looking into competitive shooting right now.. so a custom build nor single shot rifle is not of any interest to me... i'm just looking for a rifle that can share ammo with something else i had that i lost in a boating accident and have tons of ammo for to get into longer range shooting ( a few hundred yards for now) hence 308. i'm looking for a good out of the box rifle that i can maybe later build further upon. would you still go with Tikka varmint or CTR vs lets say a savage axis II precision?
Click to expand...

Are you specifically wanting to get a new rifle? It sounds as if you could have a lot of fun with a decent used one. .308s tend to have excellent barrel life; unless one has been shot extensively, there should be lots of life left in it. Maybe keep your eyes open for a good clean shooter, with make being a secondary consideration. If it isn't one you'd want to build on, you could still sell it without having to pay too much for the use you got out of it.
 
tiriaq said:
Are you specifically wanting to get a new rifle? It sounds as if you could have a lot of fun with a decent used one. .308s tend to have excellent barrel life; unless one has been shot extensively, there should be lots of life left in it. Maybe keep your eyes open for a good clean shooter, with make being a secondary consideration. If it isn't one you'd want to build on, you could still sell it without having to pay too much for the use you got out of it.
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I'd prefer new.. if i bought used i would want to do it in person as i'm not a fan of EMT .. i just saw the weatherby vanguard modular on sale for $1300.. i think i might "pull the trigger" on one ;) pun intended
 
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