Help me decide on F-O chambering
- Thread starter cdn shooter
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
If more is good, excess must be BETTERER....
Chatting with a top US gunsmith recently, he has concerns that some of his top F Open and TR shooters are going to cook their barrels at Raton during the match. Some open rigs are not lasting 800rds. Some FTR rigs are dying around 1400rds.
How the heck do you kill at 308W in 1400rds?????? Wretched excess. Don't try and tell me there is no pressure.
Shooters like to chase the "no drift" Genie to make up for their lack of wind reading skills. Can high BC going fast help? Absolutely. Will it keep you in the 10/5 rings if you miss a wind switch? Not a hope.
There will be plenty of cannons bellowing at Raton and we will see what survives at the end. I suspect there will be a bunch of rifles that will go out of tune and/or wear out and scores plummet.
Fun, fun, fun.
I think we need to develop a new wonder case. My thoughts are to a 277-03....
Jerry
It's higher BC and speed that separates FTR from F-O and the scores reflect that. I realize once your in the ballpark with what other guys are running for gear it becomes a loading and wind doping match but a tuned WSM running a 180-190 really fast wouldn't hurt...just how long is it in tune?
I think I'm narrowing things down. It will have to be a seven, WSM is just going to be to hard on barrels, the RSAUM is starting to look good but...I'm sure I'll change my mind by tomorrow.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Not long... competitive 7mm magnums are reporting less then 1000rds of useful life. Some as low as 600rds depending on operating conditions.
In both TR and Open, the push for just a little bit betterer will show quickly the limits of this venture. for a whole lot more of everything negative, the gains even at 1000yds are not massive.
Just compare the numbers for each 50 to 100fps using the same bullet. Then figure what is involved to gain that speed.
On paper it is slight. In the real world, even less. BUT.... that will not stop shooters from pushing the limits.
In an odd way, Canada has an advantage since most LR are on military bases. There is only so much you can push this tech and still shoot on the range. What is developing are several very nice stable reliable combos that are "enough".
Then the real fight can begin...
Jerry
In both TR and Open, the push for just a little bit betterer will show quickly the limits of this venture. for a whole lot more of everything negative, the gains even at 1000yds are not massive.
Just compare the numbers for each 50 to 100fps using the same bullet. Then figure what is involved to gain that speed.
On paper it is slight. In the real world, even less. BUT.... that will not stop shooters from pushing the limits.
In an odd way, Canada has an advantage since most LR are on military bases. There is only so much you can push this tech and still shoot on the range. What is developing are several very nice stable reliable combos that are "enough".
Then the real fight can begin...
Jerry
1600rnds on my 284, running right around 2900fps, and planing on 2 more matches with it FWIW
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Let's just say, some National Open team members are required to start the season with at least 6 barrels. Some go as high as 10.... They are running 7mm magnumorother.
Jerry
How long is the barrel? And is that 2900 with a 180?
31.5" yes 180gr.
what i would suggest to determine a caliber is...which bullet do you want to shoot, dont think about caliber yet, just the bullet. Let say that 7mm 180 is at the top at the moment, find a case that will give you ACCURACY and not only speed. External ballistics is more about BC than speed up to a certain point. As for barrel life, i think the 284 Shehane is popular for good reasons. Moderate barrel life and very good ballistics.
I would eliminate shooting a 300wsm with...a centershot as those bipod are WAY too flexible to handle the tork on a 2900fps 215gr. I had legs poping out of their sockets with that bipod, was not holding cant...but that is another story.
Jerry, i got 1600 in the pipe on my 308 and already running after the throat....hope it will stay accurate at Raton. I will seat my bullet on the range chasing the Throat between US Nat. and World.
Ps. i also think that the diameter of bullet that will produce highest BC in a near future are .277 but still have to wait for it to come...
I would eliminate shooting a 300wsm with...a centershot as those bipod are WAY too flexible to handle the tork on a 2900fps 215gr. I had legs poping out of their sockets with that bipod, was not holding cant...but that is another story.
Jerry, i got 1600 in the pipe on my 308 and already running after the throat....hope it will stay accurate at Raton. I will seat my bullet on the range chasing the Throat between US Nat. and World.
Ps. i also think that the diameter of bullet that will produce highest BC in a near future are .277 but still have to wait for it to come...
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
New bullets will always drive this sport.
Been testing very hot weather and hopefully, not done any damage
Raton is going to be a game of attrition. A lot of shooting in very high heat. String fire to add to the wear and tear. I have backed down my loads a bunch just to make sure nothing exciting happens. Always been running moderate pressure loads so I think the 3000rds of match accuracy should be possible. I will likely END the Worlds at around 2000rds so should be safe.
I am very leary about the super high speed and pressure loadings. The Brits tried it a couple of years back and it didn't end well for some shooters.
Jerry
PS when I am nervous about a pipe, I will really keep an eye on copper fouling. Odds are you simply don't see any blue right now. When it starts, I would move it to a practise barrel cause it is likely not far from kapoot. Certainly its best accuracy days are behind it.
Been testing very hot weather and hopefully, not done any damage
Raton is going to be a game of attrition. A lot of shooting in very high heat. String fire to add to the wear and tear. I have backed down my loads a bunch just to make sure nothing exciting happens. Always been running moderate pressure loads so I think the 3000rds of match accuracy should be possible. I will likely END the Worlds at around 2000rds so should be safe.
I am very leary about the super high speed and pressure loadings. The Brits tried it a couple of years back and it didn't end well for some shooters.
Jerry
PS when I am nervous about a pipe, I will really keep an eye on copper fouling. Odds are you simply don't see any blue right now. When it starts, I would move it to a practise barrel cause it is likely not far from kapoot. Certainly its best accuracy days are behind it.
Jerry,
I've been looking at different site like weather.com and the average temp for the mid august is 50-82F or 10-27C which is not gonna cook rounds.
For high pressure, depends if you load a single or double base...and I use single so I don't worry too much ))))
I've been looking at different site like weather.com and the average temp for the mid august is 50-82F or 10-27C which is not gonna cook rounds.
For high pressure, depends if you load a single or double base...and I use single so I don't worry too much ))))
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Temps are over 31C right now. It was hotter then that last Sept. Anything is possible and I would much prefer to shoot in high 20's vs mid 30's but you just never know.
I am sure all the team shooters will be testing under the extreme range of possible conditions. Mornings can be very cold then rocket up by 10am.
Its kind of interesting to be peeling off layers of clothing between shots.
See you in a few weeks.
Jerry
PS and since we are shooting on essentially coal slag, the ground temp will be substantially higher then the air temp. You are hot all over but your feet can be roasted. It can be a very harsh place to play
I am sure all the team shooters will be testing under the extreme range of possible conditions. Mornings can be very cold then rocket up by 10am.
Its kind of interesting to be peeling off layers of clothing between shots.
See you in a few weeks.
Jerry
PS and since we are shooting on essentially coal slag, the ground temp will be substantially higher then the air temp. You are hot all over but your feet can be roasted. It can be a very harsh place to play
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Would that be before or after the Tequila?
Will be great meeting the many shooters we "chat" with over the internet. Our recent practise went very well and things are really gelling. I hope the same positive improvements are happening for your guys out east.
Jerry
Will be great meeting the many shooters we "chat" with over the internet. Our recent practise went very well and things are really gelling. I hope the same positive improvements are happening for your guys out east.
Jerry
