Help me figure this scope mounting out

Declared Bishop

Declared Bishop

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OK. so lets start with the rifle.

I just purchased a Howa M1500 Flag APC. It came with a picatinny rail, a cheap bipod, and a small brake.

I purchased a budget Riton X1 Conquer 6-24x50 scope to learn on, on some basic Vortex medium rings.

I mounted the scope and rings, stuck my bore sighter in, and aiming from one end of the house to the other, the red dot is at the very bottom of my sigh picture at lowest zoom setting. If I start turning my turret, I basically max the turret out to get the cross hairs over the red dot...

I can't tell if the rail the gun came with is canted or not, but I feel like I need one now to get back usable elevation in this scope, unless I am doing something wrong with the mounting.

The mounting is stock from the factory... To try and compensate some, I put half a cleaning patch in the bottom of the scope ring in an attempt to raise the back a bit, but it didn't do much.

Am I doing something wrong? There seems to be a couple versions of this chassis gun, and I think I have the first iteration of it. I think the second with the more vertical hand grip has a 20 MOA rail, but I don't know how to tell if mine does or not...

any information or advice anyone can shed would be greatly appreciated
 
Bore sight for windage shoot for elevation but both will need to be adjusted to they way you shoot. The other thing is you to level the reticle to the action because that is a problem as well. The last thing is you are doing the right thing asking for help.
 
it is a bore sighter now take the rifle out and shoot it a 50 yds and make adjustments as need
bore sighter are not the same as sighting it in
You have much to learn Grashopper
 
I'm going to take a wild guess and say the rail isn't canted just based on what the website says.

In regards to needing more elevation or cant how far do you plan on shooting this rifle and what cartridge is it chambered in ?

B
 
bdb.hunting said:
I'm going to take a wild guess and say the rail isn't canted just based on what the website says.

In regards to needing more elevation or cant how far do you plan on shooting this rifle and what cartridge is it chambered in ?

B
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Its in 6.5 Creedmoor. I want to take this rifle out to 1000+ eventually, but 5-600 in the immediate future.
 
Dont use a laser dot inside your house to ballpark the scope....you'll be so far off it will only cause more problems. Ryan cleckner has great videos on how to do this stuff:


Scope Mounting:


Scope Zeroing:


His book is also probably the best at introducing shooters to precision shooting.
 
Declared Bishop , I had a similar problem a few years ago. I'm not sure if it's the exact same situation, but I'm going to share my experience and perhaps it might help with your troubleshooting.

On my 6.5 creedmoor rifle, 24" barrel, 20 MOA rail, running an Element Titan 5-25x56 scope, I also maxed out the elevation and couldn't line up my crosshair with the boresight laser dot. I originally thought my range wasn't far enough for proper zero-ing, until I realized my scope had a "zero stop". On some scopes, the "zero stop" is a separate piece inside the turret - which is meant for quick / easier adjustments for long range shooting. I opened up my turret, took out the zero stop, put the cap back in, and it "unlocked" a ton of elevation adjustment with no more blockage. It had no trouble zero-ing even at 50 yards once I took the zero stop out. After zero-ing, I put the zero stop back in, then the turret cap back on.

I had a quick look at your scope specs on the Riton website and it does appear to have a zero stop in the turret. They listed the steps on Page 9 of the manual. It might be worth having a look - maybe try removing the zero stop, zero the rifle, then re-insert it back into the turret.

Generally, most rifles with setups like this or similar to this, should have no trouble zero-ing (or bore-sighting) unless if your scope rings are way too high or if the scope has very little elevation adjustment. 0 MOA vs 20 MOA rails from my experience isn't usually a problem for closer distances. I did also want to mention one more thing since you mentioned this is a starter scope: I noticed this scope has a 1" tube. The tube diameter makes a difference in how much elevation adjustment a scope has. "Higher-end" scopes usually offer larger tubes like 30mm and 34mm which have a lot more adjustment. I don't know if this is the problem - but that's something to keep in mind when you upgrade scopes in the future - depending on the distance you're shooting.

Good luck!
 
Declared Bishop said:
OK. so lets start with the rifle.

I just purchased a Howa M1500 Flag APC. It came with a picatinny rail, a cheap bipod, and a small brake.

I purchased a budget Riton X1 Conquer 6-24x50 scope to learn on, on some basic Vortex medium rings.

I mounted the scope and rings, stuck my bore sighter in, and aiming from one end of the house to the other, the red dot is at the very bottom of my sigh picture at lowest zoom setting. If I start turning my turret, I basically max the turret out to get the cross hairs over the red dot...

I can't tell if the rail the gun came with is canted or not, but I feel like I need one now to get back usable elevation in this scope, unless I am doing something wrong with the mounting.

The mounting is stock from the factory... To try and compensate some, I put half a cleaning patch in the bottom of the scope ring in an attempt to raise the back a bit, but it didn't do much.

Am I doing something wrong? There seems to be a couple versions of this chassis gun, and I think I have the first iteration of it. I think the second with the more vertical hand grip has a 20 MOA rail, but I don't know how to tell if mine does or not...

any information or advice anyone can shed would be greatly appreciated
Click to expand...
Woodworkers use winding sticks lying across work surfaces to see that the planing or assembly is aligned. Take two yardsticks of contrasting colours. Lay one on a good flat and the other on the unknown flat. Sight along them and look for twists or rotation.
 
So just some quick googling to try and give you a hand.

The factory Hornady 147gr ELD-M at a box stated velocity of 2690 requires 29.5 MOA of elevation when zeroed at 100 yards to reach 1000 yards. Your scope has a total of 67 MOA of elevation adjustment. Theoretically if your zero is bang in the middle of that adjustment range you would have 33.5 MOA of travel left. Which should get you to 1000 yards. Now that said I'm not sure the glass will be the best for 1k shooting but it can be done.

For now don't worry about the indoor laser bore sighter they have a time and a place but personally I dont use one. I follow this method Leupold Sight in Video. An usually just start at 25 yards. take one shot on paper then step out to 100 yards take one shot, adjust then the 3rd is usually where I am aiming. It helps to use targets that are done in a grid pattern that matches your sight adjustment. MOA for MOA and MIL for MIL.

Cheers,
B
 
I only use a laser bore sighter for rifles where I can’t easily remove the bolt or easily look through the barrel (semi auto or lever action), I have the same Howa and 1st gen chassis in .308 by the way. I would pull the bolt and bore sight by looking through the bore at an aiming point at 50m, then shoot it. I’ve never not been on paper at whatever distance I bore sighted in at, have done 50m & 100m.

I’ll use the peak of my neighbors roof on either his shop or barn, one is at 50 and the other is 100m
 
Firstly...Get rid of that "Patch" as a shim !!! That's hydroscopic and will soon garner some moisture / rust to add to your issues. If you don't have any shim stock, you can take a pop or beer can and a pr of scissors and make one/or a couple that is the perfect size and fit.
Is there any chance that the rail was installed backwards (if the mounting holes are reversable) The couple of 20 MOA rails I used were all marked as such, 20 MOA.... Some on the side of the rail, others on the underside.
The zero stop issue by balonbay could very well apply to you as well...hope it's a simple fix for you, and you gitter figured out !
 
270WSMXBolt said:
Did you mount the pic rail? Is it a 20MOA? Maybe backwards? Or the rings similar? Just grabbing at straws. Cheers
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I did not mount the rail, it came installed from factory. When looking at the mounting holes, all 4 have screws in them, and are spaced differently at each end, so I don't think it can be installed backwards. But in bore sighting with and without the laser, with the scope set to zero, they are really far off.
 
kevin g said:
Firstly...Get rid of that "Patch" as a shim !!! That's hydroscopic and will soon garner some moisture / rust to add to your issues. If you don't have any shim stock, you can take a pop or beer can and a pr of scissors and make one/or a couple that is the perfect size and fit.
Is there any chance that the rail was installed backwards (if the mounting holes are reversable) The couple of 20 MOA rails I used were all marked as such, 20 MOA.... Some on the side of the rail, others on the underside.
The zero stop issue by balonbay could very well apply to you as well...hope it's a simple fix for you, and you gitter figured out !
Click to expand...

Thats actually a really good idea to use the pop cans as shims. I will 100% give that a shot. That's actually a pretty genius idea, kinda sad I didn't think of it, but that's also why I came here to ask for help.

I haven't looked at the rail in great detail, but I haven't seen any markings that would indicate it is a 20 MOA rail. I havent taken the rail off to find out if there is a marking on the underside.

I am 100% going to check the zero stop issue Balonbay mentioned as well.
 
Well....sometimes, even the "decent" rings aren't always all that true !! Seen lots over the years, that needed to be lapped or shimmed for one reason or another.
Shimming sights...rings..bases, and other things etc...has been done for a long, long time, that's why Brownell's has sold shim stock since forever !
I didn't bother to get into the ring lapping sequence that I've been doing for a long time. Figured I'd let him solve his first issue first.
 
kevin g said:
Well....sometimes, even the "decent" rings aren't always all that true !! Seen lots over the years, that needed to be lapped or shimmed for one reason or another.
Shimming sights...rings..bases, and other things etc...has been done for a long, long time, that's why Brownell's has sold shim stock since forever !
I didn't bother to get into the ring lapping sequence that I've been doing for a long time. Figured I'd let him solve his first issue first.
Click to expand...
It's why I love Burris Signature rings. You got a miss alignment? cant it a bit, you ran out of elevation? Put a moa shim in it. Up to 30 moa plus or minus

And only 2 clamp screws. No 4 or 6 clamp screws, not super thick, no bulky clamp knobs. That you see with many rings.
 
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