Help Me Identify my new rifle (Berthier)

Wiseguym70

Wiseguym70

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i just aquired a 1907-15 berthier and was told there isnt carbines of this rifle. sooo what is it. the barrel is the usual 17.7in and the rifle has "MAC 1917" On the right side of the barrel shank which i assume was the factory/date. anyway here are some pics!

http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/wiseguym70/media/13230756_10206163613039840_2046548613_o_zpswe0kzvdo.jpg.html?o=0
 
That's an Mle 1892 carbine built with a salvaged receiver from a 1907-15 rifle in 1917 at Chatellerault. The bolt retainer screw is missing, but otherwise, it looks nice.
 
Claven2 said:
That's an Mle 1892 carbine built with a salvaged receiver from a 1907-15 rifle in 1917 at Chatellerault. The bolt retainer screw is missing, but otherwise, it looks nice.
Click to expand...

Wow, you just impressed me. Can't fathom knowing all this info about this stuff, but I'm new into milsurp other than the common rifles.


I'll embed the OP's pics for him.
Wiseguym70 said:
i just aquired a 1907-15 berthier and was told there isnt carbines of this rifle. sooo what is it. the barrel is the usual 17.7in and the rifle has "MAC 1917" On the right side of the barrel shank which i assume was the factory/date. anyway here are some pics!
13262068_10206163613879861_125381224_o_zpsrhhwj72h.jpg


13242143_10206163614039865_486882523_o_zpsiqmfylfu.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Claven2 has summed it up, definitely a interesting little carbine.

Here is your picture of the whole rifle. Also the middle band is on the wrong side, the ring should be to the left.

 
Well I can give you some rough production numbers. From 1892-1917 there were about 700,000 M1892 Carbines made (basically what yours is, just a recycled receiver from a M1907/15). Out of those 700,000 MAC (Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault) produced 380,000. Yours was also right at the tail end of production. These carbines were used through WWI, many different colonial wars (both before and after WWII), and WWII so there was attrition there.

You don't see many Berthier rifles and carbines come up too often in Canada, I suspect the US got the majority of the imports and those that are in Canada people choose to hold on to. They are however pretty cool rifles and carbines, and often overlooked by many collectors. Shooting the rifles can be pretty fun, though I suspect those little carbines shoot a massive fireball and kick like a mule. Reproduction Mannlicher clips for them (the three round ones) can be found on P&S Militaria, though they are a little pricy (they do work great though).
 
$350 is a fair price. The screw prevents the bolt from coming out of the receiver at the back end of its stroke with the trigger pulled. Safe to shoot without it, but I would source a replacement. Try Numrich arms.
 
st1264 said:
Wow, you just impressed me. Can't fathom knowing all this info about this stuff, but I'm new into milsurp other than the common rifles.


I'll embed the OP's pics for him.
Click to expand...

I've seen just about everything that is standard over the years. It helps I wrote most of the milsurps knowledge library at milsurps.com and have a huge reference library. I don't post here a lot anymore though.

By the way, I can now see all the pics, one was not loading for me before. Your receiver was originally made by etablissement continsouza.
 
Wiseguym70 said:
Is that a pretty common thing among these types of rifles?
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Yes, for rifles made after 1916. On the western front the war ruined rifles faster than factories could make them, so the French employed salvage teams to collect damaged arms from combat areas and returned them to the factories who salvaged and re-used the parts that were still ok. Lots of receivers were recycled. Interesting, but not rare.
 
Claven2 said:
Yes, for rifles made after 1916. On the western front the war ruined rifles faster than factories could make them, so the French employed salvage teams to collect damaged arms from combat areas and returned them to the factories who salvaged and re-used the parts that were still ok. Lots of receivers were recycled. Interesting, but not rare.
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing your knowledge sir!
 
It's semi-common to see 1907/15 receivers in the 1892 carbine pattern. I talked to Oathias from C&Rsenal about this exact topic as I also have a 1907/15 Marked Carbine. They used whatever parts they had to fill the orders.
 
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