Help me pick a gun/caliber
- Thread starter Dan R
- Start date
What do you guys think?? If one wanted a "sniper" rifle it would have to exhibit both things the original poster was looking for in a rifle. It has to be very accurate at long distance (even up to 1000 yards +) but also have stopping or takedown power to do the job.
What is the norm for these type of rifles, Long heavy barrels, target rifle like features, or are they more like hunting rifles? Or is there a blend. The reason I ask is everyone has mentioned that lugging around a target rifle in the woods is not practical not due to accuracy and stopping power but due to weight and pointability (scopes etc.), but isn't that exactly what a military dedicated marksman does? Or do they sacrifice some accuracy and distance for weight savings?
Thanks
What is the norm for these type of rifles, Long heavy barrels, target rifle like features, or are they more like hunting rifles? Or is there a blend. The reason I ask is everyone has mentioned that lugging around a target rifle in the woods is not practical not due to accuracy and stopping power but due to weight and pointability (scopes etc.), but isn't that exactly what a military dedicated marksman does? Or do they sacrifice some accuracy and distance for weight savings?
Thanks
tactical rifles need to be really tough and heavy barrels will maintain accuracy during repeated shooting etc. so everything is overbuilt on them....hunting doesn't require this, light barrels can be plenty accurate, my sako a7 is proof to that, it keeps 3 usually 1/2 moa or less and 5 i generally keep to 3/4 moa pretty regular...at 500m on steel or 100 yrd on paper i get the same out of it and that gun came 5 lb 15.5 oz naked on our digital baby scale
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
If you want a target rifle then that's what you should buy. 1000m shooting is not going to be satisfying with your hunting rifle. I would suggest this: Buy a 30-06 for your hunting needs. It need not be extravagant nor even new. You could probably pick up a Savage package rifle on the EE from a dealer like Frontier for under $500. Then start saving for a purpose built target rifle in 308, 260 rem etc. You'll likely spend over a grand on this rifle so either set more money aside and buy both now or buy one this year and the other next year. Look at the Savage LE line or for a few sheckels more go for one of their target rifles (F/TR for example) and, if you must cheap out somewhere, buy a Bushnell 3200 10x off the EE for $250. Then start saving for a 12-42x Nightforce BR scope, equivalent high power Leupold (6.5-20x or 8.5-25x), one of the Sightrons that Jerry sells or even one of the Bushnell 6500s (I've never used the 6500 or the Sightron but have heard favourable reviews).
In the end you really want two different rifles. Try to make one do the job of the other and you'll just end up unhappy.
In the end you really want two different rifles. Try to make one do the job of the other and you'll just end up unhappy.
Unlike carbon steels, Stainless has a sticky property to it and it likes to stick rather than slide. After a round is fired - especially a hot load and there is stiff bolt lift, the pressure on the lugs is enough to cause this gauling.
Even if your loads are not hot, suppose you just neck size your cases... After a couple firings, the cases get snug and stiff bolt lift can occur. After not that many tight rounds your bolt can stick firmly as a result of gauling. Grease can help, but you are better off with a carbon steel action so it cant happen.
When you think of military sniper rifles, they are never stainless - probably for the above reason.
If you like militaryish stuff, you could consider a steyr-ssg-69
http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/en/military-law-enf/steyr-ssg-69/
Some countries use these for sniper rifles and they are not all that heavy.
Not sure of the cost or availability though in Canada.
http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/en/military-law-enf/steyr-ssg-69/
Some countries use these for sniper rifles and they are not all that heavy.
Not sure of the cost or availability though in Canada.
Try The 700 in 30-06 or 300W.M. The 700 is a smoother rifle than the Savage and the base screws are so far apart that you need reversible bases and /or extension rings I believe the rifle to pigs ear and will be difficult to make unto a thing of beauty. With the 300wm you can reduced loads if the rifle has a lot of recoil. The 300 is also an excellent 1000 yard rifle with Match ammo being avaiable. You would have to change your optical set up (rings,bases ,scope for the long range shootin but a well set up rifle should do the trick unless you into serious competition. I have long ago found and still believe the recoil from a 308 is out of proportion to its performance
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Go and pick up some rifles at the shops, see what feels comfortable, fits your body and frame, feels good in your hands.
then see what calibers they have , they all will work, a .243 heart shot will drop an animal at 300 yards , a leg shot with a .338 at 100 won't. Whatever you feel comfortable with holding is what i go for.
don't forget about .270, .284 calibers
then see what calibers they have , they all will work, a .243 heart shot will drop an animal at 300 yards , a leg shot with a .338 at 100 won't. Whatever you feel comfortable with holding is what i go for.
don't forget about .270, .284 calibers
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hey mate, i think if you reload then a sensible option is a Ruger hawkeye in 35 whelen topped off with either a 2-7x33 or a 3-9x40 leupold.. I use one for Sambar deer here in australia and from the comments ive had on here about it being a great moose round with a 225 woodleigh or 250gr core lokt i think it would be well an truely right up your alley, I've shot Fallow deer which are closely in a whitetail class, and big sambar with are in Elk class and you would have no worries on a big bear.
Rugers are a nice peice of hunting gear, you wont have any troubles. mine is not floated an shoots fine for deer hunting.
My longest shot has been at 200m an the whelen passed right through.
Cheers
Rugers are a nice peice of hunting gear, you wont have any troubles. mine is not floated an shoots fine for deer hunting.
My longest shot has been at 200m an the whelen passed right through.
Cheers
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
i appreciate you sharing your knowledge, but if people take your posts in this thread at face value theres going to be a lot of knee-jerk reactions. the fact is that as a competitive benchrest shooter you have different considerations than the average hunter.
if you:
-keep your bolt lugs lubed (as you should in any rifle, stainless or no)
-use factory ammo or properly full length size your brass
-do not shoot hot loads
then the odds of the typical hunter running into galling problems are nearly nonexistent.-use factory ammo or properly full length size your brass
-do not shoot hot loads
from the perspective of a competitive shooter who shoots thousands of rounds of ammo a year and whose rifles rarely leave the confines of a range or gun cabinet, yes a blued steel action makes sense.
but if you are the typical hunter out hunting in poor weather conditions then the benefits of stainless or titanium far outweigh the minimal risk of galling.
07blackwater
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Port Coquitlam, BC
Last month I picked up a Savage 116 fcss in 7mm mag from frontier for $699 and the thing shoots great. With federal power-shoks I'm grouping just under an inch. With better ammo I can guarantee It'll be a tack driver.
Nicest shooting rifle I've used in quite a while. Mind you I'm just a hunter but I'd say it's quite a bit of gun for the $$.
Nicest shooting rifle I've used in quite a while. Mind you I'm just a hunter but I'd say it's quite a bit of gun for the $$.
- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
Okay, so I'm learning a few things here. I don't have a stainless gun... yet. I was thinking I would get one here in the not-too-distant future, but I do tend to load hot. In particular I was thinking of getting a 300WSM, and to get advertised velocities, you have to load hot. Anyway, if I do this with a stainless gun I will likely gall the lugs? Really? Just by working up a load and then practising some? Or would I need to shoot over a 1000 rounds a year for a couple years to cause galling?
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
if you are making sure your bolt lugs are properly greased it shouldnt be a problem. i use a couple small dabs of graphite grease, but ive heard of some people using anti-seize -- i would personally avoid it because its even more messy than graphite and IIRC its toxic.
either way your best bet would be to ask someone that actually shoots a 300WSM in stainless and shoots lots of hot loads if theyve had any problems with galling. the only centerfire rifles i have in stainless are a .25-06 Rem700, a .308 Ruger M77 mkII, and a Savage model 16. i have not yet noticed any problems with galling, but i do religiously grease my bolt raceways/lugs on all my rifles whether they are stainless or blued.
if it really was so bad of a problem as fclassguy is making out then the web - and CGN - would be full of gripes about stainless actions and galling. its not.
i do not doubt his knowledge/experience, however i believe he is looking at it from the perspective of a competition shooter who shoots thousands of rounds a year, as opposed to that of the average Joe hunter.
- Location
- London, Ontario
thats a tough one, since if i were looking for a rifle for 1000yd shooting, and a rifle for hunting in the bush, they would be two completely different things.
i would not want a 26" heavy barreled rifle with a 20MOA rail and high powered scope for hunting in the bush, nor would i want to shoot long range with a compact, lightweight bush gun with a low-powered scope and light contour barrel.
not saying one rifle cant do both, but its not going to be ideal for either. decide how likely it is that you are even going to be doing 1000yd shooting, and go from there. if its just something you 'may' decide to try 'sometime in the distant future', then forget it and get a rifle ideally suited to hunting in the bush... and build a second gun later. you will get sick of carrying that 10lb laminate Ruger Target in the bush, i promise you.
you should also look into the Ruger Frontier or Compact for actually carrying in the bush. the .308 Compact is 5 3/4lbs, Laminate is 6lbs.
What scope mount is that? Looks WICKED
- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
Right on. Thanks!
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-...s/fx-ii-riflescopes/fx-ii-2-5x28mm-ier-scout/
*edit
ah, misunderstood - thought you asked about the scope.
the mount comes on the Frontier. its basically an M77 mkII Compact with a removable scout mount rib on the barrel that is machined for Ruger rings. Ruger also supplies a picatinny rail that mounts on it with the rifle. you can mount the scope normally on the back of the receiver as well, and even remove the scout rib entirely.
you can get a gunsmith to make you something like this on just about any rifle -- check out Boomer's bear gun, it has a similar scout rib that he had custom made.
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
found it -- here is a pic of Boomer's rifle, i hope he doesnt mind me digging it up and reposting it.
hopefully he will chime in and explain how exactly he did it:
hopefully he will chime in and explain how exactly he did it:
I think you can't go wrong with a Husqvarna 1600 in .30-06 from Anthony at Tradex. You can have a nice one for under $500 and that leaves a fair amount for rings/bases and optics. Throw a new Weaver K4 on it and you will have money left for dies, brass, powder and bullets too.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
My rifle started life as a factory .375 H&H Brno 602. My vision was to be my own version of Jeff Cooper's Baby chambered for the .460 G&A, I was simply going to open the .375 Ultra to .458. Anyway, that all changed with a gifted .375 barrel, but I decided I wanted to go with a big case (.375 Ultra) to make up for the reduced barrel length. It wasn't until later that I discovered that the .375 bore doesn't give up much velocity to a reduced barrel length. Still I can get long barrel .375 H&H ballistics without loading to full pressure and with bullets heavier than 300 grs I gain well over 100 fps over the H&H.
The barrel is a 1:12 twist stainless fluted made by Rob Smith. The Ruger style barrel band was already on it, but the brass front sight has to be used to be appeciated, appearing white on a dark background and dark on a light background. Even though the factory stock was glass and pillar bedded it failed, so I went to a McMillan which again was glass and pillar bedded and hidden cross bolts were installed. LOP is 13.5" I had to get a knuckle defelctor installed to protect the knuckle of my middle finger from painful recoil bumps against the trigger guard. The front sling swivel was placed on the radius of the forend to prevent recoil cuts to my hand, and I won't have a barrel mounted sling although I like the look, because it prevents me from slinging up when shooting from a rested position. I had no work done to the action, magazine, or trigger all which work just fine. The quarter rib is silver soldered to the barrel. The rib is inletted for Talley rings and the scope, now an older 2X EER Leupold rather than the Burris Scout scope in the pic. I had the rear bridge drilled for a rear Talley base to allow mounting the Talley ghost ring aperture.
If I was to do it again, I would not have a fluted barrel, I would probably go with a chrome-moly steel rather than stainless, and I would choose a faster twist for superior terminal performance, although I would stay with cut rifling as it is my preference. I would choose the excellent NECG peep sight made for the CZ 550 rather than drilling and tapping the receiver. I have one on my ZG-47 and I like it although it needed to be opened up. An earlier 602 action with the factory pushdown peep sight would be preferable. Speaking of sights, I would choose the more familiar scalloped Ruger front sight barrel band and I would not have it machined flush with the barrel. Just a different aesthetic I prefer. I think everything else I would keep the same.
