I bought the JR in 9mm because I reload 9mm. I also bought the Scar 22 cause it looks awesome and I wanted a cheap shooting gun. I thought I would get bored of the .22 but it really is a blast to shoot. Last time I brought the Scar .22 to the range, I didn't even shoot my 9mm handgun. It's also nice to have the 22 and 9 non restricted so I can bring them both shooting in the bush with a couple buddies.
Help me pick! Kel-Tec Sub2000 vs. EMF JR Carbine vs. Thureon Defense
- Thread starter derrickk
- Start date
Shooter1of38
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
My JR, work in progress:
I like the way the full length SIR balances out the barrel length. Still waiting on the combo wrench from the manufacturer to take off the stock barrel nut so it can be mounted properly.
I'm not a "barrel shroud" kind of guy.
I'm a shroud kind of guy! Your set up looks awesome. Could you post of pm me the details and where you picked the accessories up?
Thanks.
Verdical Driver
Regular
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I own the Sub 2000. Here are my unique thoughts on it (other than what you might hear in other reviews... after all, everyone knows it folds, blah blah blah):
Positive:
It is super simple to field strip / clean / maintain. I can break it down to clean without tools in about 5 seconds, and reassemble it in another 5 seconds. Maintenance is super easy. This was one of the reasons I chose the Sub 2000 over the JR Carbine.
The fact that the barrel splits off from the action when you fold it in half makes cleaning a breeze. Basically, it is like cleaning a handgun.
Negative:
The sights are a crappy. When people complain how it feels cheap and plastic, this is what they are talking about. The rest of the gun is actually pretty solid despite what some people say about it "feeling cheap"... But the front sight *IS* cheap. I can see if you where using the gun for some serious rugged use other than range toy, that it could easily get broken.
The length of pull is a bit short... I suppose it would negate the benefit of a gun that folds in half, but it wished it was a bit longer.
Positive:
It is super simple to field strip / clean / maintain. I can break it down to clean without tools in about 5 seconds, and reassemble it in another 5 seconds. Maintenance is super easy. This was one of the reasons I chose the Sub 2000 over the JR Carbine.
The fact that the barrel splits off from the action when you fold it in half makes cleaning a breeze. Basically, it is like cleaning a handgun.
Negative:
The sights are a crappy. When people complain how it feels cheap and plastic, this is what they are talking about. The rest of the gun is actually pretty solid despite what some people say about it "feeling cheap"... But the front sight *IS* cheap. I can see if you where using the gun for some serious rugged use other than range toy, that it could easily get broken.
The length of pull is a bit short... I suppose it would negate the benefit of a gun that folds in half, but it wished it was a bit longer.
Sure, figured a post would benefit the rest of the group too that's interested so here it is.
The main piece on there is the ARMS SIR # 59C which is a rifle length handguard/rail system. It has a cantilevered top rail that goes back over the upper receiver that holds it in place, but it is also supposed to index on an AR15 barrel nut. Since I'm still waiting on JR to ship me the combo wrench to remove the stock barrel nut I haven't been able to take it off, so the entire rail assembly will sit further back than it does in that picture.
That's also the civilian version (hence the C) which differs from the military model in that you don't need to remove your delta ring to fit it on. The JR Carbine doesn't have a delta ring so that's not a concern, but for aesthetics sake I might put one on. There's also a pile of rails that you can add to the forend, mine came with about six or so including a sling swivel. I haven't added them on yet.
Rear sight is an ARMS #40 flip up that I got with the SIR, the front is an airsoft knockoff of a Daniel Defense iron sight (hey, wanted to take it to the range and it was all I could get locally!). I have the matching rear sight but the #40 slots in to the rear of the #59C so I figured I'd throw it on there. I'll be looking for a real BUIS for the front shortly, the post in the airsoft one is a non-standard thread so I can't add a different one, and it's far too tall so all my shots hit very low. I filed it down considerably but still needs a bit more to go.
All the ARMS stuff I got on the EE from an individual seller. I just checked his post and while he did have one more set, looks like it's been sold. Got it for a really good deal IMO, $185 shipped if I recall. I know some "HSLD" guys pan the ARMS stuff but I'm not jumping out of helicopters into Osama's hideout so it's all good.
I had bought a JR 9mm Carbine not to long ago and put through arond 300 rounds and not one issue with ejection or anything. It has the round barrel not the tri flattened one. It may be $800+ but remember you get what you pay for... fairly decent built NR 9mm and ambidextrous is sweet for leftys
No. I am pretty sure Epps is the importer. Their site has only the .40 and 9mm right now. A friend of mine contacted JR and they have the 1911 and Glock .45 models ready to go. I believe Epps is getting them soon. Give Epps a call and let us know. I may do it myself just don't feel like it right now.
Longbranch
CGN Regular
- Location
- The Big Smoke
Who carries the Thureon in Canada?
Lanz Shooting Supplies:
http://www.lanzshootingsupplies.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_9&products_id=237
And the importer is Arms East, so you may be able to get one from them as well.
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
We chose to sell the Thureon because we saw it is a superior firearm. The Thureon Defense rifle does well when seen in person, and fired.
For the quality in the machining and mechanical design, I think that the cost is reasonable. These are small run, well made firearms. I believe they must cost more to manufacture than many other firearms costing close to, or even more in price. It feels like a well made firearm. It 'puts together' and 'takes apart' smoothly.
With the new top rails, as suggested to Thureon Def by AEI, as suggested to AEI by all your feedback on CGN and in conversation on the first spec shipment, which extends to the upper receiver, and is monolithic rail height, I think the looks are now there too! It definitely does better in person than in pics though, if that makes sense. Check with your dealers and actually look at one in person, I think you might be pleasantly surprised.
Questions of aesthetics aside, they have an excellent reputation for reliability and accuracy. They handle just like a 9mm AR. By that I mean, When looking through your optic, it IS an AR15. (Esp with the size and angle of the SMG mags). It takes AR optics, sights, stocks, pistol grip, triggers. And, it is non-restricted.
I personally am happy with the SMG mags, SMG mags are reliable, STRONG, load from the top, and run straight up and down. That said, I am pretty sure the Glock mag GA guns will be popular.
They are just now starting to catch up with our orders, and I know they sold a pile of guns at SHOT this year, so we're hoping for steady deliveries in 2012. Getting them has definitely been our biggest problem.
We'll be posting a range report over the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned.
In the meantime, the shipment that arrived just before SHOT is in the system and selling. If you're looking for a dealer, give us a shout at 877-576-0007, if you are a dealer, let us know, and we'll post it and send customers your way.
I'll post this info on our forum as they get closer, but Canada will have 9mm and 45ACP with SMG mags, (SA9/SA45 Pistols and their 10rnd Mags available), and 9/40... and 10MM (finally!) Glock mag models through 2012.
Best regards.
DT
For the quality in the machining and mechanical design, I think that the cost is reasonable. These are small run, well made firearms. I believe they must cost more to manufacture than many other firearms costing close to, or even more in price. It feels like a well made firearm. It 'puts together' and 'takes apart' smoothly.
With the new top rails, as suggested to Thureon Def by AEI, as suggested to AEI by all your feedback on CGN and in conversation on the first spec shipment, which extends to the upper receiver, and is monolithic rail height, I think the looks are now there too! It definitely does better in person than in pics though, if that makes sense. Check with your dealers and actually look at one in person, I think you might be pleasantly surprised.
Questions of aesthetics aside, they have an excellent reputation for reliability and accuracy. They handle just like a 9mm AR. By that I mean, When looking through your optic, it IS an AR15. (Esp with the size and angle of the SMG mags). It takes AR optics, sights, stocks, pistol grip, triggers. And, it is non-restricted.
I personally am happy with the SMG mags, SMG mags are reliable, STRONG, load from the top, and run straight up and down. That said, I am pretty sure the Glock mag GA guns will be popular.
They are just now starting to catch up with our orders, and I know they sold a pile of guns at SHOT this year, so we're hoping for steady deliveries in 2012. Getting them has definitely been our biggest problem.
We'll be posting a range report over the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned.
In the meantime, the shipment that arrived just before SHOT is in the system and selling. If you're looking for a dealer, give us a shout at 877-576-0007, if you are a dealer, let us know, and we'll post it and send customers your way.
I'll post this info on our forum as they get closer, but Canada will have 9mm and 45ACP with SMG mags, (SA9/SA45 Pistols and their 10rnd Mags available), and 9/40... and 10MM (finally!) Glock mag models through 2012.
Best regards.
DT
Last edited:
slowpoke55
CGN Regular
I have both the JR carbine and sub 2K in 9mil , I could not make up my mind on which one to purchases. SO, I bought them both.
Like both rifles for vastly different reasons.
However if I had to make a choice between the two. I would pick the JR carbine without a second thought.
The JR is just better built , you can easily add on grips, sights and optics , as it comes with enough rails from the factory.Also there will eventually be a 45 conversion kit available in Canada.
The support is good. They responded to my emails, and offered to phone me .
The sub 2K is not ready to mount anything , without a lot of modifications.
The front sight is a bit of a joke.
BUT it folds in half !!!!!
You can drop it in a back pack and your good to goooooooo.
Like both rifles for vastly different reasons.
However if I had to make a choice between the two. I would pick the JR carbine without a second thought.
The JR is just better built , you can easily add on grips, sights and optics , as it comes with enough rails from the factory.Also there will eventually be a 45 conversion kit available in Canada.
The support is good. They responded to my emails, and offered to phone me .
The sub 2K is not ready to mount anything , without a lot of modifications.
The front sight is a bit of a joke.
BUT it folds in half !!!!!
You can drop it in a back pack and your good to goooooooo.
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Did you just say what I think you just said?
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
I'd like to see a Thureon carbine with a thicker handguard on it
With the rails attached, the quadrail is standard AR15 Quadrail thickness. Is this what you mean?
Thanks. There are 10rnd mags available, and we have the 10" TD9 Pistol in stock. However, the new shipment of 10rnd TD9 pistol mags are at our US Exporter, they didn't fit under the last export license. We have another license under review now which does include them. We're not advertising them until they're here, which will be three days after the license is issued. Think days not weeks.
Yup. I'll post some pics.
Yep thats what I meant. So let me get this straight as of right now the Thureons come with 5 round mags, but hopefully soon you'll have 10 round mags available?
Thanks
on a side note they do look better when accessories are added
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
Some pics showing the rail height modular rail. TD is also doing up more full length rails like on the bottom, vs the current half-length rails pictured, as mounted on the sides here.
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
We have them licensed and on order, TD has our 19" .45ACP barrels on order. at this moment, they have not yet arrived. As soon as they're ready, we'll have them. When that will be exactly, I cannot say for sure at this time.
