Help me pick out a black rifle

Crazy Chaingun

Crazy Chaingun

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Hello all

I'm thinking about saving up for a quality black rifle, and could use some help deciding what to get.

First of all, I'm pretty sure I want to go non-restricted. So AR-15's and AR-10's are out.

One thing I'm not sure on yet is caliber, what are some of the differences between .223 and .308 I should know about?
Stuff like accuracy, downrange performance and price are important.

I'm fine with paying extra for good quality equipment, so guns like the Swiss Arms PE-90 or the Tavor are options.

It will be a while before I have the dough to buy any of these guns.
So I'm just doing research for now.

Any advice would be much appreciated.
 
personally my friend id go with the .308 you get tons of versatility, example accuracy is awesome, and the stopping power is there to hunt with if you choose to do that. .308 u can hunt from deer all the way to moose or bigger.

i own a .308 it is how ever a m305 BUT i absolutely love it, and wouldn't get anything else. the only thing with this cal is it is expensive to shoot unless you reload your own.

Crazy Chaingun said:
Hello all

I'm thinking about saving up for a quality black rifle, and could use some help deciding what to get.

First of all, I'm pretty sure I want to go non-restricted. So AR-15's and AR-10's are out.

One thing I'm not sure on yet is caliber, what are some of the differences between .223 and .308 I should know about?
Stuff like accuracy, downrange performance and price are important.

I'm fine with paying extra for good quality equipment, so guns like the Swiss Arms PE-90 or the Tavor are options.

It will be a while before I have the dough to buy any of these guns.
So I'm just doing research for now.

Any advice would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...
 
First, determine the end use. You indicated you wanted a non-restricted, so is this just for target shooting, hunting or ideally both? Second, determine your budget. You're looking at between $1,500 and $5,000 depending on calibre, options, accessories, etc. The application will really determine what's available, and your budget will further refine the list.
 
If you do decide to go the restricted route I would recommend the DD M4 V5 in 300blackout. It versatile and extremely fun to shoot. It's not that expensive to shoot either. Just my two cents
 
Whiskey Gulf said:
If you do decide to go the restricted route I would recommend the DD M4 V5 in 300blackout. It versatile and extremely fun to shoot. It's not that expensive to shoot either. Just my two cents
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Is this actually a serious recommendation? Yes, let's suggest a restricted AR15 in an expensive and hard-to-source cartridge. Just because. This has the markings of "shill" all over it...
 
blaxsun said:
Is this actually a serious recommendation? Yes, let's suggest a restricted AR15 in an expensive and hard-to-source cartridge. Just because. This has the markings of "shill" all over it...
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I don't know about "shill" but I do know I absolutely love this gun. And as to the hard to source ammo, lots of places are starting to stock it. IMO I think this round is going to take off fast. And the price has already dropped from 25 to 13 dollars a box for the super sonic stuff.

And I was just throwing it out there as a suggestion because he did say "pretty sure", not "NR only"
 
Whiskey Gulf said:
I don't know about "shill" but I do know I absolutely love this gun. And as to the hard to source ammo, lots of places are starting to stock it. IMO I think this round is going to take off fast. And the price has already dropped from 25 to 13 dollars a box for the super sonic stuff.

And I was just throwing it out there as a suggestion because he did say "pretty sure", not "NR only"
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Emphasis on "starting to". You also left out "expensive" (you can shoot match .308 for less than 300BLK). I refer you to the OP:

One thing I'm not sure on yet is caliber, what are some of the differences between .223 and .308 I should know about?
Stuff like accuracy, downrange performance and price are important.
Click to expand...

Accuracy, downrange performance and price - three things that 300BLK doesn't have going for it. You can shoot factory .223 for about one third the price of 300BLK, so unless you reload any savings in the original purchase price quickly evaporate.

6.8SPC would be a better choice, but if you're going 6.8SPC you might as well really go .308 - since it will be slightly cheaper. Again, I'm not sure how this could be a serious recommendation for a first-time black rifle.
 
I live in an area that does not allow hunting with rifles over .270, also, I can't hunt deer with rifles here.
So the only hunting I would ever do with a black rifle (unless I moved) would be coyote (and only if I got a .223).

Most of the shooting I would do with this rifle would be plinking, target shooting, ect.

However, I am not looking to buy a target rifle. I want a rugged, reliable rifle just in case the Russ...(ahem)... I mean the Zombies, invade :ar15:

So that being said, the (apparently) better stopping power of a .308 is a plus.
How does the accuracy of .308 compare to .223?

And Whiskey Gulf, thanks for your suggestion. It's not quite what I'm looking for at the moment, but it is very cool.

As for my budget... I don't have a set amount, I might save up for a year or more for this kind of thing.
I just want to get whatever's the best fit for my needs.

Thanks for all the help so far, this forum rocks!
 
Whiskey Gulf said:
If you do decide to go the restricted route I would recommend the DD M4 V5 in 300blackout. It versatile and extremely fun to shoot. It's not that expensive to shoot either. Just my two cents
Click to expand...

I have got to agree, this is about the dumbest response possible. It's okay to love your rifle just don't try to shove it down the throat of someone who obviously wants something that is completely different.

Back to the OP, it really depends on what you want to do with it. If price of ammo is a concern, I think .308 is off the table right away. You can get .223 for as cheap as .27c per round, to my knowledge the cheapest .308 is a minimum of .48c per round.

This leaves you with a plethora of NR .223 black rifle's. A list of these being stickied has long been suggested as people are just tired of repeating them all.

Some but not all are:

Tavor
Swiss Arms
XCR
ACR (with barrel swap)
SL8
MR-1
I'm sure there are more, I'm just drawing a blank, some consider a mini-14 to be black, ha, not a chance it makes the list, but that is a different debate

Crazy Chaingun said:
I want a rugged, reliable rifle just in case the Russ...(ahem)... I mean the Zombies, invade :ar15:
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Also, while some will agree with the Russian/zombie invasion thing, displaying these feelings so openly often leaves one with little credibility and people tend to not take them very seriously. Just a thought.
 
Crazy Chaingun said:
Most of the shooting I would do with this rifle would be plinking, target shooting, ect.

So that being said, the (apparently) better stopping power of a .308 is a plus. How does the accuracy of .308 compare to .223?
Click to expand...

Based on your additional "criteria", I would probably suggest something like a Tavor then. Lightweight, compact, rugged, reliable - and .223 is all you need for coyotes (and since you don't plan on much if any hunting, I'd just stick with .223). It's not a tack driver by any means, more like a MOY (minute of 'yote) gun. In addition to being non-restricted, it also accepts the new 16-round Beowulf magazine.

Crazy Chaingun said:
However, I am not looking to buy a target rifle. I want a rugged, reliable rifle just in case the Russ...(ahem)... I mean the Zombies, invade :ar15:
Click to expand...

Further to what Steve mentioned, the "zombie" thing is kind of an inside joke. Or at least it used to be until people started taking it seriously...
 
Crazy Chaingun said:
I live in an area that does not allow hunting with rifles over .270, also, I can't hunt deer with rifles here.
So the only hunting I would ever do with a black rifle (unless I moved) would be coyote (and only if I got a .223).
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Can't hunt with rifles OVER .270? Nothing in .30 cal? I've heard of nothing smaller than .240 for deer, but never requiring under .270. Wowzah.
 
Rurik said:
Can't hunt with rifles OVER .270? Nothing in .30 cal? I've heard of nothing smaller than .240 for deer, but never requiring under .270. Wowzah.
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Yes its stupid the caliber laws in provinces. In AB and SK I can hunt deer with a 9mm JR carbine or Beretta CX4 storm but I can't with my Tavor in .223. Its beyond retarded.
 
I am not literally preparing for zombies, that was just my attempt at humour. :)

The point is this, I don't want a made-in-china piece of junk.
I am looking for a rugged, high-quality black rifle.

This should hopefully make my intentions clear...

As for the Tavor, it is definitely one of the better looking options out there.
I'll have to try handle one sometime, I've never handled a bullpup rifle before.

I had a question about the Swiss Arms PE 90, apparently they don't take standard AR-15 mags.
What do magazines for these rifles cost?
Also, what capacities (pinned to five rounds of course) do they come in?
 
Crazy Chaingun said:
I had a question about the Swiss Arms PE 90, apparently they don't take standard AR-15 mags.
What do magazines for these rifles cost?
Also, what capacities (pinned to five rounds of course) do they come in?
Click to expand...

The Swiss Arms rifles don't take AR mags, some consider this a disadvantage (because they can't take LAR-15 10 round pistol mags) others consider this an advantage, because there traditionally more reliable and durable than STANAG (AR) mags. You can get a AR mag accepting lower, but there pricey, about $500 bux if I'm not mistaken.

Factory mags are expensive, but after market mags from can am are 40-50 bux and are just as good or better imo. The factor mags come in 5, 20, and 30 round sizes (20's and 30's pinned to 5 of course) and the canam mags only come in 5/30
 
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