Help Me Read My Target

Thanks Westside. When I try the H1000 again i'll probably start somewhere around 90gn or so.

I added some pics of the range I am using, maybe it will show what I mean about not being "square" to the target, but i'm sure at this range it is not going to make much of a difference. Anyway, on to the pics...
IMGP0732.jpg

This is my new postion, more "square" to the target.
IMGP0729.jpg

IMGP0730.jpg

This was my original shooting position, you can see the 100yd berm on the left
IMGP0731.jpg

IMGP0733.jpg

IMGP0734.jpg

IMGP0735.jpg
 
Yup, looks like things are going much better now. Keep shooting and get her dialed in to the yardage you want to shoot at.

Steve

P.S. Must be nice to have the range only 5 mins away!
 
Well it definitely looks like your heading in the right direction. Both the 90 and 91gr (other than cold bore) are a decent step up from the original 250gr targets. I would try the 91 again, other than the first shot it is nice and flat. Maybe even 90, 90.5 and 91 at 200.

5 min to the range must be nice... takes me ten here!!
 
this may or may not have been mention but i only skimed threw the thread...

your wasteing your time to load develope at 100, human error plays much more effect at that range and it will take you 2x the ammo to get your load and even then once you do have your load it might be all for not as if you shoot further it MIGHT go for ####s, you can get an idea at 100 but its far from the best choice, if it shoots like ass at 100 it will shoot like ass at 1000 but on the other hand it might shoot great at 100 and ass at 1000.

if i were you, you know what range of powder gives you decent groups, take that and go out to 200 or further if u can and refine the load from there. a 300gn smk is a big heavy bullet, and probably hasnt even stablized 100% by the time u hit 100yd target

your better off to load develope at the range you plan to shoot, with in reason of course..

just my .02 but either way damn nice set up you have there
 
LongBomber said:
Well it definitely looks like your heading in the right direction. Both the 90 and 91gr (other than cold bore) are a decent step up from the original 250gr targets. I would try the 91 again, other than the first shot it is nice and flat. Maybe even 90, 90.5 and 91 at 200.

5 min to the range must be nice... takes me ten here!!
Click to expand...

I think i'm going to try 89.5, 90.0, 90.5, 91.0 and 91.5. But i'm thinking it's going to end up somewhere between 90 and 91. Should I try at 100 again or at 200? Once I find the best load with the Retumbo, i'll then play with the distance off the lands. Everything has been seated .010 off the lands so far. I'll try .000, .010, .015, .020 and see how that goes.

I appreciate everyone's input, it has really helped me stay focused, this whole process can be quite frustrating.

PA
 
Well yes, it can be frustrating but try to focus on the good. There are certainly some improvements in your latter posted groups. You have only been at this 11 days since your first post. Some of us can only make it to the range once every couple of weeks so problems can take even longer to iron out. Shooting either makes you patient or you pack in.
I'm quite confident you will get there when you get everything dialed in. BTW, from a personal view point this hobby continually frustrates. Each range trip there always seems to be guys shooting way better. And for me, every little improvement in group size takes time and effort. And sometimes you take steps backwards.

PS. I think you can still learn a lot from from shooting at 100. But shooting at 200 yards the 300 grainers are not going to be blown around much. But first you have to be comfortable in your setup and view of the target.
 
I have the same gun and it shoots very tight groups at 110yards with the 300g SMKs basically one large hole less the. 1/2 moa off a bi pod. I was suprised US869 didnt work out for you that was my next powder I was going to test?
 
Revolution said:
I have the same gun and it shoots very tight groups at 110yards with the 300g SMKs basically one large hole less the. 1/2 moa off a bi pod. I was suprised US869 didnt work out for you that was my next powder I was going to test?
Click to expand...

I only tested the US869 with the 250's, I haven't yet tried it with the 300's. I dont have much left of it, maybe enough for 30 rds or so but I will try it again since I have heard that some where having good results with it.

Shooting at 200 at my home range is sometimes tough, it's up hill a bit and the berm at 75 yards gets in the way. When I shot those two loads at 200yd, I was prone and my view was just to the right of the 75 yard berm. The target at 200 yards was just above the ground and there was a awfull lot of distortion I was getting through the scope from the ground. I have found a spot in the bush where I can stretch it out to 600ish meters but I have to do a bit of work to make it ready to shoot out there.

What load are you using?
 
Maybe on my next powder order i'll get some Federal primers as well. I loaded up 25 more rounds tonight. 89.5, 90.0, 90.5, 91.0 and 91.5 grains of Retumbo with the 300gn SMK's. Hopefully i'll get out to the range after work some time this week. I'll shoot the groups at 200 yards so long as I can see the target well enough. The one thing I don't have is a chrony. A friend has one but he lives 5 hours away, if i get a hold of him i'll see if he can bring it up next time he's in town.

When I was decaping this latest batch, I noticed that it was awfuly hard to pull the expander ball back up through the case (i'm neck sizing only). I figuered it was time to anneal the cases, they were bought as once fired Lapua brass and I had 4 (now 5) reloads through them so far. Would it make sense that the cases were becoming work hardened therefore that is why it was very difficult to pull the expander ball back through the case? I annealed them with a propane torch (just the shoulders and neck) and dunked them in water to cool them. When I neck sized them tonight it was noticably easier to pull the expander ball through the neck.

Also I know that it is said that once the cases are hard to chamber, it's time to bump the shoulder back some. How many firings are people getting with their Lapua brass before they need to bump the shoulder? I'm on reload #5 with these cases and they still chamber.

One thing I have learned through all of this is that I desperatly NEED A CHARGEMASTER!!! and I also need a keg of powder :)

Anyway, i'll post up some targets after I get to the range, hopefully this week.

PA
 
Since you have 200 yards available and especially since you seem to have shot better groups at 200 you should definitely try this if possible. You might be able to improve your seeing by putting a separate aiming mark some distance above the part of your target where you want you bullets to land. If your target frame will allow you could say staple up a piece of corplast above your paper target and put an aiming mark (say) 24" above the part of your paper target where you want your bullets to land. Then wind your scope DOWN 12 minutes from your 200y elevation zero; this will make your bullets strike about 24" below your point of aim. Aim at your (hopefully) nice and easily visible aiming mark, have your bullets get caught by your paper target.

When you can round up a chrony it is definitely worth doing a test session with it but in the meantime don't let the lack of one stand in your way; without one you can practice your shooting and also refine your ammo to shoot nice tight groups at short range. The chrony is useful for verifying or developing a load with good velocity uniformity, which is helpful for long range shooting but won't affect your short range grouping at all.

If you are using an expander ball it is useful to lube the inside of the case mouths so that the expander ball pulls through fairly freely. If a lot of force is needed to pull the expander through, it can pull the neck crooked, which can make your loaded ammo a bit crooked. It is a bit of a hassle to do this, not only applying the lube (a Q-tip works well) but it's also usually useful to remove the lube before you throw your powder (because the powder grains will stick to the lube; not a problem accuracy wise but it is a handling hassle).

As long as your rounds comfortably chamber you can continue to just neck size them. Do keep an eye on the overall length of the case; it ought not to grow much but if it does you should trim when/as required (then be sure to chamfer the inside and outside of the case mouth so you can seat your bullets without scraping them).

And as long as we are talking about rounds chambering easily (or not), do keep your bolt lugs well greased. Every time you clean the rifle you should clean the bolt lugs and then apply fresh grease to the lugs.

If you have a runout gauge or can eventually borrow one it is useful to verify that your loading setup is producing reasonable straight ammo. If you have 10 thou or more runout ("T.I.R. = Total Indicated Runout") this is likely going to hurt your accuracy. If your runout is under 5 thou then it's not likely hurting your accuracy.

FWIW I don't think you need a chargemaster, certainly not now at this stage of your load development. If I were you I would throw the powder charges, and be completely happy with powder charges that were +/- 0.5 grain (i.e. within a 1 grain spread). That sort of variation in your powder charge weight ought to be completely undetectable at 100 and 200 yards (in fact out to 600 yards and probably even a bit further).

There is no need to explore every possible powder out there (though if you enjoy doing so there is nothing wrong with it either). If you want to hurry up and get a load that is good enough to shoot and possibly even good enough to win matches with, the best way you can do this is to shamelessly copy what lots of other shooters have found to work well. It's not innovative but it sure works well. If the general wisdom is that H1000 in the low 90s works well for a bunch of people you can with a fair bit of confidence just go straight to that.
 
+1 for a chronograph if you can borrow one. It will give you your muzzle velocity which you need to plot you drop chart and also will give you your deviation from shot to shot.

In an ideal world each bullet would leave the barrel at the exact same velocity but in reality this is not the case. I am seeing on average a 30 fps spread when shooting 5 rounds. The match grade primers reduced my velocity spread by approx 15 FPS.

What is the max range you plan to shoot at ?
 
Max range? There is none. The max range I have to shoot at currently is about 600 meters, but I may be able to stretch that to 800-1000 meters. I plan to slowly work up to those ranges since I did not buy this rifle to plink at 100 yards. I do plan on hunting with it (from a stationary point, not humping it though the bush), not sure of the range i'll be hunting with it, depends on how consistant I can shoot it at X range.

What are people using for a case trimmer? I dont have a trimmer but all the cases are still under the max case legnth so I have not needed to trim any as of yet. I can't seem to find a Lee trim legnth guage, I don't think they make them.

If the weather stays nice today i'll head out to the range after work and shoot the last of the Retumbo loads I have. Then it's on to the US869 I guess.

PA
 
So had a rough day at work. Short handed for the next few weeks. Figuered i'd go to the range and blow off some steam and try to shoot my last loads with the Retumbo. I anealed my cases the other night since the expander ball was really tough to pull out of the case. The anealing worked, much easier now. So it's raining off and on, wind is blowing although at the range the trees block most of it. I get everything set up, load 5 in the mag, chamber a round, bolt wont close. ####. WTF man. Pull the bolt back, round is still in the chamber. Drop the mag, close the bolt, wiggle the handle, finally getting it to grab the case and pull it out. So I try the other four in the mag, same story. ####! So now there is a shiny ring around the shoulder of the cases.

So rewind a couple days to me anealing my cases, i'm all done and i'm thinking " I wonder if I should bump the shoulder of these. I mean hot applied to metal equals expansion, meah, probably not". So now i'm stuck. I already posted this question in the reloading forum but can I size these rounds loaded or do I have to pull the bullets and then size them? I'm using a redding body sizing die.

Frustrated,

PA
 
You be gettin High Maintenance Boy! My girlfriends require less attention! :D

Seriously, if it were me, I would not put a loaded round in any kind of sizing die.

And if I did I would not tell it on any kind of public forum!
 
Well your max or preferred range will also dictate your final reload recipe.

At least I believe that will be the case.

I did a quick ladder test with my rifle at 200 yards and then once I stretched my legs and have found that I can achieve repeatable hits at my desired range "currently 1215 yds" then I will rerun a ladder test at range to see if the "sweet spot" changes.

I get alot of satisfaction from hearing that hit on steel whenever I'm shooting, The longer I have to wait to hear the impact the more satisfaction I seem to get.

When I can get myself shooting beyond 1800 yards then I think it will get truly interesting as that is the point where the bullet crosses back over to subsonic. I hope that will be this year but i don't want to rush it.

The danger of reforming a loaded cartridge in my mind would be based on the change in case volume and the possibility for creating a compressed charge inside the cartridge. I am sure the general consensus to be to pull the bullets/powder and then reform the case.
 
Thanks Westside. I have no problem pulling the bullets and reloading the cartridge, it's a pain in the butt I know, I just wanted opinions on if it was safe to do it with them loaded. With the loads I have I don't belive there would be any danger of a compresed load. I checked all the cases before seating the bullets and there seemed to be plenty of room in there for the amount the case is going to be resized.

I will pull the bullets though. I would rather be safe than sorry. There are enough threads about lessons learned after the fact and I would hate to start another one.

I am hoping that I will have the chance to relieably hit targets at 600 meters with this thing by the end of summer. I love shoting this rifle, reloading for it, the precision involved. I know there is more involved in shooting long range other than dialing in some elevation and letting one fly, but I am willing, and anxious to learn. I would love to attend to some events but I live very out of the way, about half way between Winnipeg and Thunder Bay, and getting time off is not easy. Anyway, i'll let you all know how I make out.

PA
 
as simple as the sounds..... but suprissing the people that dont do it.. when u pull the bullet, dump the powder in your powder tray, resize, and dump powder back in the case, saves having to remessure... iv never go why people dump the powder back into the container just to remessure it out again... i guess it makes sense on a pregressive press if ur doing 1000 pistold rnds... but for 30....
 
ultimate_monkey said:
as simple as the sounds..... but suprissing the people that dont do it.. when u pull the bullet, dump the powder in your powder tray, resize, and dump powder back in the case, saves having to remessure... iv never go why people dump the powder back into the container just to remessure it out again... i guess it makes sense on a pregressive press if ur doing 1000 pistold rnds... but for 30....
Click to expand...

It's a good thing you mentioned that because that is exactly what I was going to do, dump it back in the measure :redface: I think I will measure a couple of them, just to be sure, or put my mind at ease.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom