Help me shoot my grandpas guns!

CanadianAR

CanadianAR

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My grandpa gave me these with the intent to teach me how to shoot them. But he has developed cognitive issues so not likely going to happen.

So I have these two guns. I have the basics down, put the measured amount of powder down the tube, you put a patch on the barrel, put a ball on the patch and push it down all the way. Then out a percussion cap on and fire.

But what I need to know is the amount of powder and which powder to use. And how to measure it. I have this little draw/measuring thing but don’t know how to use it. I’d prefer to use the powder in the tin first as there is lots so I can do a bit of shooting before learning another powder.

Here’s some photos of what I’ve got. I am not new to firearms just black powder. My last shooting outing was my 25mm AT gun which the libs screwed me out of. Let’s hope black powder lasts longer. Lol

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go to https://www.tcarms.com/

as them for copy of your owners manual .....it should have load data in it

If you pm me you private email I can send you some info you can read as a start

when loading Black or pyrodex remember no air space under what you are shooting

when you get home you have to clean your rifles ... you can not wait till the next day...... and soap and water are your best friend

it would be best if some one local to you could give you a hand / pointers

wear your safety glasses all the time
 
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Also look up blackpowderaccuracy. Dutch shoultz , If he is still alive, sells manual for one method of getting the best possible accuracy out of these things. It`s $20 USD and he will send it electronically. He sent mine before i even sent him the money.
I`ll look him up and see if he is still pushing the grass down. He is quite long in the tooth and in not very good condition.
If he`s pushing daisies, i`ll send a copy of mine. Will give you a lot of info on the process.
I got my CVA squirrel .32 getting 1 inch groups at 50 yards and my .45 Ardessa getting 1.5 and i still have a ways to go tightening that group up.
 
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Is your 45 Ardessa like mine? If so what’s a basic charge for a lead ball?

I’ve found several people using the carbine with a charge of 80-90grns.....can anyone confirm this?
 
CanadianAR said:
Is your 45 Ardessa like mine? If so what’s a basic charge for a lead ball?

I’ve found several people using the carbine with a charge of 80-90grns.....can anyone confirm this?
Click to expand...

Mine is a split stock(full length) 1975 model. 32 gr goex is the best charge for mine i`ve found so far, but the rifle has much more potential. The higher charges- don`t think i`Ve gone beyond 70 gr in it, while accurate, spread the group. Actual ball size, thickness of patch and lubing system will all affect accuracy.
 
infideleggwelder said:
Also look up blackpowderaccuracy. Dutch shoultz , If he is still alive, sells manual for one method of getting the best possible accuracy out of these things. .
Click to expand...

Dutch's method was good for bench resting but not suitable for trail walks or offhand competitions where you load from the bag. I would use 50 grains of triple F or 60 grains of double F in the 50 cal. Pyrodex was designed to be the same volume (not weight) as black powder and you measure both with that adjustable measure in the photos. You want a water based patch lube for most shooting and buy 100 % cotton for patching, using a micrometer to measure the thickness. Probably start with .015" and go up in thickness if the patch seems too loose. Check you fired patches and look for perforation in the fabric. If the patch is too thin, the powder will blow holes in the patch. Probably most importantly, if there is a black powder section at a club near you, have them critique your loading technique, when you are starting out

cheers mooncoon
 
We're starting monthly shoots in Lethbridge in April if you are in that part of the country. Come on out!

The charge can depend on the rifling twist too. A 1-48 is often happy around 40gr while a 1-66 or 1-72 twist might like 70-80gr with round ball.
 
So based my my research my powder measure should the same as this
50grn fully collapsed and then adds 10 per detent. And the Hodgson site you guys linked me to says the 45 should take a 50 or 60 grain charge with the RS powder. I can’t measure 40 currently so won’t worry about that, and the 50 cal can do anywhere from 70-100grns. They lost the exact ball diameters I have. So that’s helpful.
My grandfather was using these preluded patches but also made his own. I will likely try the prelubed ones for my first outing.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/thompson-center-compact-brass-powder-measure.html


So to summarize, I have some decent starting numbers and the right powder to at least fire them. Don’t care about accuracy at this point. Just want to try them. I will likely buy a new jug of powder of this stuff works well.

So tell me if I have anything wrong.

-Measure the charge and pour in.
-put the ball in on of the patches and start it,
-push all the way in with rod and tamp it in pretty good. Do I use real force or just run the rod home a few times by hand?
-affix cap and fire

*** I will be checking the barrel prior with a video scope to ensure nothing was ever left behind.
 
You're on the right track. The powders you have should keep you going for a while.
The box in the picture says .490" for the 50 balls doesn't it? That would be the right size.

Do you have a short starter or a range rod? Way better than the one under the barrel but that will work too. Just be careful not to break it and run yourself through.
 
I have starters for both guns, and the under barrel rods for both and supplementary rods my grandpa made with balls on the end like the starter. He was a machinist and woodworker his whole life so liked making parts and accessories for these. The three plastic hodgson containers are not full. Maybe 1/3-1/2. But should work for now. Also have powder horns for each.
 
Thought I’d finish this with an update. Took them out yesterday.
One hiccup on the very first shot. Cap fired but not the main charge. Waited , put another cap on and tried again and it went! Fired each rifle about 4-5 times with base charges from the powder data sheets. Was a fun time. Next time I’ll maybe go up a charge level. But don’t want to go to the Max.

Not nearly as Smokey as I expected.
 
And keep this Goex metal can when empty and fill it with the same powder coming from such ugly plastic container they are using now.
 
Glad you are having success!
Hopefully you don't find cleaning after to be too much of a chore. Some people enjoy cleaning guns and others absolutely detest it.

It's not unusual for the first shot to be a little stubborn going off and also will impact at a different point from a clean barrel than following shots. Cleaning out the breach area with dry patches and compressed air helps and always snap 1 or two caps before loading the first shot. If you hold the muzzle near blades of grass you can see the effect of the cap if everything is clear.

Happy trails!
 
Yes, 25mm Hotchkiss. It went to a friends business who’s licensed for all so it’s safe.


I don’t mind cleaning them. Slightly different when both ends aren’t open but I got it.

Interesting on first shot troubles. We assumed debris in flash hole , so that sounds about right I guess. Good tip on testing first. Or maybe use torch tip cleaners to clean it out.
 
Commonly accepted that below .50, use 3F and at or above use 2F or Pyrodex equivalent. You can actually use either safely, might find one or the other better for your needs.

Pre-lubed patches can deteriorate over time. If you're just loading and shooting, spit patches can work fine.

A few folks blow into the barrel to help any lingering ember burn up. Most folks frown on it. If you swab with a damp(spit) patch followed by at least one dry you'll achieve the same and help control fouling. Fouling can build up to a real challenge for loading in a few shots. And some folks claim extended strings without a problem just by how they do things.

Dutch hangs around on the Traditional Muzzleloading Forum as Dr5x. Not on it much lately but those guys are a geyser of information. Very strictly traditional muzzleloaders.
 
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