Help me try to pinpoint problem.

darcy32171

darcy32171

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I`ve been reloading for a 22-250 using winchester brass. I use all Lee reloading equipment. The dies are Lee RGB. I tumble my brass everytime and I also full length resize everytime. I thought the problem I am having was something to do with the gun itself. I bought a savage Axis back in December and have about 400-500 rounds through it. The bolt seems really tight to chamber and eject shells. I mean really tight. I thought just for the heck of it, I bought a new box of Winchester shells (a guy can never have enough brass!). I found out that it is the brass. New shells, the bolt works nice and smooth. The reloaded stuff (doesn`t matter how many times they have been reloaded) is where the bolt is tight. I set up the resizing die to what the instructions say, but never adjusted the screw type pin at the top (not sure what it does.
Does a guy just live with the problem since I love the reloaded stuff, or is it something I`m doing or missing thats causing this? Thanks,Darcy
Thought I`d throw a pic up of the die to show the screw type pin I`m talking about.
sizingdie.jpg
 
Thought I would also mention: I`m very particular when it comes to reloading. I trim cases even if they are close to factory length. And I also check every shell after for OAL with a micrometer.
 
darcy32171 said:
I`ve been reloading for a 22-250 using winchester brass. I use all Lee reloading equipment. The dies are Lee RGB. I tumble my brass everytime and I also full length resize everytime. I thought the problem I am having was something to do with the gun itself. I bought a savage Axis back in December and have about 400-500 rounds through it. The bolt seems really tight to chamber and eject shells. I mean really tight. I thought just for the heck of it, I bought a new box of Winchester shells (a guy can never have enough brass!). I found out that it is the brass. New shells, the bolt works nice and smooth. The reloaded stuff (doesn`t matter how many times they have been reloaded) is where the bolt is tight. I set up the resizing die to what the instructions say, but never adjusted the screw type pin at the top (not sure what it does.
Does a guy just live with the problem since I love the reloaded stuff, or is it something I`m doing or missing thats causing this? Thanks,Darcy
Thought I`d throw a pic up of the die to show the screw type pin I`m talking about.
sizingdie.jpg
Click to expand...

Die looks fine. do you trim your brass? running max loads?
 
Sounds like you are covering the basics fine ... I would suggest trying to chamber and eject a resized, length trimmed brass before it has been reloaded. You may be having an issue with seating and crimping that is messing with your neck size after the fact.

Check your resized cases with specs for all dimensions - especially base to shoulder length. OAL is one thing, but if your shoulders are walking out on you, that will make it very hard to chamber a round. You can try seating your die to touch the shell holder, then give it an 1/8 turn extra downwards to ensure it's getting full pressure on the shoulder to bump it to back to normal depth. A little technique my uncle had me do with his every 2'nd or 3'rd reload on his brass for his 22-250 ... he was running a pretty hot compressed load that liked to stretch the cases pretty good.

The top small adjustment nut etc.. on your die shoudl just be for setting the depth of your deprimer ... as long as it just clears the base of the shell by an 1/8" inch or so, your are fine. Too deep though, and the expander ball on it could bottom out in the shell and bend the pin on you, causing bad problems.
 
Well, the Hodgdon site is what I go by for the reloading info. Just for ####s and giggles, I checked OAL of the factory brass and it is: 2.335" . I guess I might have just answered my question as to "why" the bolt is tight. But, with IMR 4895 powder and Hornady V-Max 55gr bullets, I can`t help the OAL on the reloads.
 
IMagius said:
Sounds like you are covering the basics fine ... I would suggest trying to chamber and eject a resized, length trimmed brass before it has been reloaded. You may be having an issue with seating and crimping that is messing with your neck size after the fact.

Check your resized cases with specs for all dimensions - especially base to shoulder length. OAL is one thing, but if your shoulders are walking out on you, that will make it very hard to chamber a round. You can try seating your die to touch the shell holder, then give it an 1/8 turn extra downwards to ensure it's getting full pressure on the shoulder to bump it to back to normal depth. A little technique my uncle had me do with his every 2'nd or 3'rd reload on his brass for his 22-250 ... he was running a pretty hot compressed load that liked to stretch the cases pretty good.

The top small adjustment nut etc.. on your die shoudl just be for setting the depth of your deprimer ... as long as it just clears the base of the shell, your are fine.
Click to expand...
I should have mentioned that. I tried resized/trimmed brass without the bullet(thinking I might be hitting the lands and grooves) and it still was an issue. I`ll do as you say and check base to shoulder length.
 
OAL is a tricky number.

I would suggest determing MAX OAL wth the chosen bullets youa re going to use.
Seat just a bullet (no brass involved in this process) into the barrel with a light tap to have it touching the rifling. Use a cleaning rod to measure from muzzle to tip of bullet.
Remove bullet and close bolt, measure from Bolt face to muzzle.

The difference is your absolute Max OAL for that specific bullet brand/type/weight - I tend to run about 0.015 to 0.020 less than that number.

Problem with published OAL numbers is that they do not take into account the design of the bullet it'sef. by it's very nature, a Hollowpoint bullet will be "missing" the last 0.125" of it's length compared to the same Ballistic tip bullet. If you are seating your bullets to OAL, without taking into consideration where the bullet engages the rifling, then your bullets shoulder will be 0.125" furtherinto the barrel than a different bullet.

Your hard bolt closing would simply be that you are "seating" the bullet slightly as you close the bolt.
 
Also, if you still have some of the factory ammo that works properly, check all dimsensions (lengths from various locations, diameter at various location - neck, shoulder, base, etc..) against your resized/trimmed brass. Somewhere you will find a difference. Tell u where that difference is and we shoudl be able to lead you towards what is causing it and a solution.
 
I`ll try this! Just so i`m on the same page: Take bullet I use(no brass), open my receiver and get bullet into chamber and run cleaning rod down barrel towards the receiver till it touches the bullet. Measure cleaning rod. Take bullet out and re-install cleaning rod till it touches the "closed" receiver and measure cleaning rod. Subtract the two to get true OAL.

If this is correct I will try it. I just hope I understand this so called "light tap" of the bullet. It shouldn`t get passed the lands should it? How much of a light tap??
 
Couple of suggestions and forgive me if you're already ahead of them

1. How do you set up your resizing die? Normally, you should raise the ram, screw the die in as far as it will go, lower the ram and then screw the die down another 1/4 turn or so. That last 1/4 turn that can make a big difference.

2. If that's what you've been doing, take one of your loaded rounds (or make up a dummy to the same specs) and 'paint' the bullet with a black permanent marker. Now chamber it and withdraw it. If the bullet is impinging on the lands, you will be able to see marks.
 
I lightly just seated a bullet and held it in the chamber against the lands and measured it and then measure the receiver. The difference was: 2.210
 
OK, let's compare with SAAMI specs in inches: (http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/206.pdf)

....................................Factory........Reload........SAAMI

Head................................460............460.............4668

Shoulder...........................416............416.............4172

Neck................................255............255..............256

Length to shoulder..........1.523..........1.523..........1.5148

Length to shoulder top.....1.675.........1.675..........1.6636

Case length....................1.899..........1.914..........1.912

COAL ............................2.335 .........2.350..........2.290 min, 2.350 max

All in all, if your measurements are accurate, you're over here and there. Not much, but perhaps enough to cause problems with a tight chamber.
 
darcy32171 said:
I should have mentioned that. I tried resized/trimmed brass without the bullet(thinking I might be hitting the lands and grooves) and it still was an issue. I`ll do as you say and check base to shoulder length.
Click to expand...

If your still having trouble with tight chambering with no bullet then your not sizing the case enough. If possible try and borrow a die and see what happens, you mAay need a small base die. Usually those are needed for semi auto loaders but strange things happen.
 
tight chamber

My own savage 110 has a chamber so tight that I could not close the bolt freely on a full sized brass. My chamber is probably on the minimum for the factory spec and chambers factory rounds fine. I found that by experimenting with resizing a case with a feeler gauge under the case between the shell holder and the brass that I needed another .008" of resizing depth into the resize die. (RCBS dies) I had the choice of shaving down a shell holder on top or shaving the die body base down by .oo8" to give me a free bolt drop on fired brass in that rifle. Note: ensure that you deprime the brass first so you do not punch a feeler gauge and work up .001" at a time trying the brass in your rifle as you go. Also make sure that you use a properly trimmed case. It was quite the practical demonstration in manufacturer specifications to see the bolt fall lower and lower until it freely dropped home as I shimmed the case higher and higher. I decided that rather than have a shell holder around that I may use to overly re-size some other caliber I shaved my die down and etched it with the rifle s/n. A bonus of this is that with a minimum chamber my FL sized brass lasts longer and my fps is usually as high as the published data in the manuals (no wasted space in chamber). It also shoots damn fine.

270 totheend
 
there are 3 possibilities:
1. bullet is hanging up on the throat or rifling
2. Shoulder is hanging up
3. cartridge diameter is oversize for your chamber.

I don't think it would be the leade or throat since factory ammo with same neck dimension works fine.

It could possibly be the bullet is contacting the rifling even though OAL is the same as factory - bullets have different contours and every one is a law unto itself. But since you said the problem is still there without a bullet in the case, then it is probably not the bullet.

I tend to think it is your shoulder dimension or the cartridge body diameter. Here is what I would try: bumping back the shoulder slightly in small increments and trying to chamber after each bump. If that doesn't work you probably need smaller die set, maybe a small base resizer die.
 
The other possible problem is neck thickness. Try marking the outside of resized case necks with a felt pen then chamber the loaded cartridge and check to see if the neck is rubbing hard in the chamber. If so, you'll have to outside neck turn your brass.
Grouch
 
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