Help Needed - Lower Mainland M14 Owner *UPDATED*

Saryet

Saryet

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Powell River, BC
Hey guys,

Taking up .45ACPKING's advice here and reaching out to get some assistance. Earlier today while at the shop my boss and I were trying to remove the barrel from my M305 receiver. We got it to break loose a bit before the bloody vice broke and the barrel is still in there pretty tight. I anticipate a bit of time before it gets replaced and I am eager to get this done ASAP so I can get on to cerakoting then the rest of the build. In any case, I am wondering if there is anyone out there who has the tools, knowledge, and willingness to help me make this happen. I am more than happy to compensate you for your time and efforts. I live out in the Aldergrove area and am more than happy to travel a bit. Thanks all!

-Saryet, out!-
 
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Did you unscrew the little tiny set screw in the right hand side of the receiver? Take it out or if you do manage to break the barrel loose, you will completely destroy the barrel threads!

Scott
 
Set screw is in fact removed, yes. It's just in there super bloody tight Scott. Using the heat gun seemed to help as well but the vice gave way before we could make any further progress on it.

-Saryet, out!-
 
You can always mail the barrelled action to me..... I'm north of "We the North". :)

It's very straightforward to remove things now that this little set screw is removed (that's really the hardest part)

Cheers,

Barney
 
I've had a few barrels that were "bears" to remove on norks..... Like 6 foot cheater bar and 2 strong lads tight.....

The last one that was bad (probably the worst yet IMHO) when I finally broke it loose, it hand tightend at 30 degrees.... I estimate 250+ ft lbs to beak it loose.....

I scrapped the barrel, as I am sure the threads were stretched pretty good, and the face of the receiver was "marked up" pretty good too.....

I've also had a few that were hard to remove due to "rust welding".... Which isn't actually all that bad, a wire wheel to remove the rust and "Bobs your uncle!".

I could very easily remove the barrel for ya, but Barney is way cheaper than I am.... And probably better at than me too!

Cheers!
 
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Thank you both very much gentlemen! A local CGN'r who I bought a part from last year has graciously offered to help me out here so I think the problem will be solved. My question to you then - Barney and notsorichguy - now becomes: If we need to use heat again to help us, will a propane torch be OK or should I look at a heat gun instead?

And notosorichguy, you came highly recommended to me as someone I should be looking at to install my new barrel and all the other bits I need to finish it off. I'll be PM'ing you once the cerakoting is done and we can chat more.

Thanks again everyone!

-Saryet, out!-
 
I look forward to your PM.

A heat gun will provide very little heat where you need it, IMHO. It will work to warm the receiver, but you are probably looking for a bit more than just warm....

On the flip side, too much heat is a really bad thing. So a small Home Depot propane torch would be OK, for 2 reasons.... 1) you will lose your patience waaaay before you start to anneal the heat treat out of the receiver, 2) you are going to cerekote the rifle anyway, so any "burning" will be sandblasted off and then covered.

Nap gas (sp? the stuff plumbers use) or acetylene one will provide way more heat, and in all probability, too much heat and may permanently damage the receiver..... Which would require a trip to Vulcan refinishing to have it re heat treated. Which isn't really all that expensive, but a donor rifle would wind up cheaper, after all the useable spare parts are sold off.

In any case, I would get some tempilstik rated at around 350 degrees f. Mark the receiver and heat away. But once the tempilstik melts, stop heating.... Just to be on the safe side....

I personally have never had to resort to heat to break a M-14 barrel loose..... But I haven't done all that many... Less than 200 anyway... One day I may, but not yet!

Cheers!
 
I'm gonna hazard a guess that when they originally set the barrel set screw in the rifle at the factory, it caused some burring inside. have met many a barrel that have released from the shoulder only to bind up a 1/2 turn or so later.
I'd hit the screw hole with a crap load of spray cleaner like seafoam deep creep then load it up with rapid tap and crank that sucker out. the m305 receivers are plenty hard enough and the barrels are soft enough that any thread deformations from cranking her off with a burr in there should be isolated to the barrel threads.
If you got it to break free at the shoulder and it has just started to bind up as it turns, heat will probably do nothing for you so I'd advise against using any. just use good tight fitting vice and wrench and a log bar for leverage and crank her loose.
 
Well after many months and a few frustrating financial delays (mainly due to the car...) this project is DONE!

I have wanted a Troy MCS ever since they were released and had a pretty solid vision for what I wanted to end up with. I am pretty damn happy with the end state here and can say it is really nice to see an 8 year dream come to an end. A short laundry list of the major components:

- Troy MCS
- Krieger 18.5" med profile barrel
- Magpul M93 stock
- Sightron S-TAC 1x7 w/ ADM Recon mount
- Precision Armament M4-72 brake
- Sadlak extended mag release
- Fulton Armory piston
- M14 medic extended bolt release
- Hogue grip
- Green Blob 'Atlas' style bipod

I must also openly and graciously thank some awesome CGN'ers who helped me out of the gate with this: Nathan (forgot your CGN name sorry!) who opened his shop to me on his own time and did all he could to get the original barrel out, RUSTSPOT for his AMAZING cerakote job on the action, receiver, trigger group, and barrel components, and notsorichguy for doing all the heavy lifting on the barrel re/re, the trigger work, bolt lapping, and much more. Without you guys this never would have happened so thanks crew - you guys are great. Hopefully I will have this out soon and after the barrel break in, will start playing with various ammo loads and see what kind of accuracy I can get from her.

-Saryet, out!-




 
Saryet said:
Well after many months and a few frustrating financial delays (mainly due to the car...) this project is DONE!

I have wanted a Troy MCS ever since they were released and had a pretty solid vision for what I wanted to end up with. I am pretty damn happy with the end state here and can say it is really nice to see an 8 year dream come to an end. A short laundry list of the major components:

- Troy MCS
- Krieger 18.5" med profile barrel
- Magpul M93 stock
- Sightron S-TAC 1x7 w/ ADM Recon mount
- Precision Armament M4-72 brake
- Sadlak extended mag release
- Fulton Armory piston
- M14 medic extended bolt release
- Hogue grip
- Green Blob 'Atlas' style bipod

I must also openly and graciously thank some awesome CGN'ers who helped me out of the gate with this: Nathan (forgot your CGN name sorry!) who opened his shop to me on his own time and did all he could to get the original barrel out, RUSTSPOT for his AMAZING cerakote job on the action, receiver, trigger group, and barrel components, and notsorichguy for doing all the heavy lifting on the barrel re/re, the trigger work, bolt lapping, and much more. Without you guys this never would have happened so thanks crew - you guys are great. Hopefully I will have this out soon and after the barrel break in, will start playing with various ammo loads and see what kind of accuracy I can get from her.

-Saryet, out!-




Click to expand...

Glad to see you finally got her all buttoned up, and she sure looks good too!

Looking forward to hear how it shoots!

Cheers!
 
OP Looks great.
I have a question for notsorichguy.


notsorichguy said:
I look forward to your PM.
In any case, I would get some tempilstik rated at around 350 degrees f. Mark the receiver and heat away. But once the tempilstik melts, stop heating.... Just to be on the safe side....
Click to expand...

I'm looking at refinishing with a coating that states "heat at 250 for 30 min, cool for 30, heat at 350 for 30, cool for 30 and finally heat at 500 for 30, cool for 30".

I hadn't planned on going over 350, is 30 min at 350 too long in your opinion?

Thanks.
 
recce said:
OP Looks great.
I have a question for notsorichguy.




I'm looking at refinishing with a coating that states "heat at 250 for 30 min, cool for 30, heat at 350 for 30, cool for 30 and finally heat at 500 for 30, cool for 30".

I hadn't planned on going over 350, is 30 min at 350 too long in your opinion?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

That response was in relation to heating a receiver to remove a barrel.

So I would think your "coating" would kinda be a different bowl of wax....,

I assume you are powder coating as opposed to Cerakote or Arma-coat.

Arma-coat does not require heating and Ceracote is cured at 350 iirc.

But I thought Powder coating could be done at 350.... So I'm not sure....

I am not a metallurgist, a welder or any type of scientist..., so any info after this statement should be taken with that in mind.... I don't actually know what I'm talking about, but I have read some s*it, and I believe what I am stating is accurate.... But take it with a grain of salt!

I am not entirely sure at what temperature the heat treating is annealed at..., by that I mean, the usual way that heat treated hardness is removed from hardened parts etc is to heat and then slowly cool (cooling is usually drawn out over a predetermined length of time). The temperature at which it is heated to and then held is based on the type or formulation of the material. For instance steel would be heated and hardened via quenching in oil. It would be "softened" via heating and a slow drawn out cooling. The type of steel would then demand a certain temperatures to harden to different hardness.... The depth of the hardening would depend on how quickly the heat is applied and on how quickly it is quenched. The inverse would be true for annealing.

In short..... I know "for sure" that 350 f will not harm the heat treating on a M-14. Ceracoating is done a 350, and is a very good finish for a M-14 that is going to see some use IMHO.

I am "pretty positive" that temps above 750 f will very likely compromise the heat treating on an M-14. It will discolour the metal. And that to me means that the heat treating is compromised.

If I was to guess...... 500 shouldn't hurt the rifle..... But that is a guess....

I hope this gives you some information that is useful enough.... Feel free to PM.

Cheers!
 
This thread is testament (big words, eh?) to the great community we have right here on CGNutz!

I feel great (not sunny ways great) that many of you are paying it forward and helping out! Thanks for all this! :wave:
 
D3vin said:
Very nice setup. How much weight does the troy chassis add?
Click to expand...

Based on Troy's own FAQ's on their site, they say the MCS adds 1.36 lbs to the weight of a standard M14. I just weighed mine as you see in the pics and it comes in at 14.8 lbs with an unloaded mag. Time to hit the gym if I want to use it in my CQB matches... :p

This thread is testament (big words, eh?) to the great community we have right here on CGNutz!
Click to expand...

Sure is Barney. Definitely some solid dudes that made this happen and were willing to reach out and help where they could. This is what it should be like.

-Saryet, out!-
 
recce said:
OP Looks great.
I have a question for notsorichguy.




I'm looking at refinishing with a coating that states "heat at 250 for 30 min, cool for 30, heat at 350 for 30, cool for 30 and finally heat at 500 for 30, cool for 30".

I hadn't planned on going over 350, is 30 min at 350 too long in your opinion?

Thanks.
Click to expand...


Hey, so I too am not a blacksmith or metallurgist, but I am a machinist. And for our first two school terms we had a dedicated metallurgy class. Basically, after heating and quenching the steel to harden it, (usually 1000f minimum, depending on the steel and grain structure you want). You then have to temper the steel by reheating it to the desired temperature. To achieve the desired balance between hardness and toughness. While at school we did this in the ovens, but also once by hand with a torch as a visual reference to tempering color charts. The steel usually starts turning a straw color right around the 350f mark....so it really depends on what temperature the the receivers are tempered to. If they're tempered to 500f+ then you're good to go. If not, you'll be softening the receiver. I seem to recall pictures of Fulton armory receivers in the purple-blue spectrum...if that's the case then you should be pretty safe. I'll see if I can do some digging for those charts and pictures, and get back to you.

EDIT:
My bad, it was actually smith Enterprises.
receivers7.02.lg.jpg

Tempering_standards_used_in_blacksmithing.JPG


Could just be blowing smoke but judging by the receivers in the picture, at 500f would bring you well within the danger zone.

-Ross
 
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