Help Reloading 30-30 for my Marlin 336W

shorst97

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Seeking help from the gunnutz out there! My wife just got a new to her Marlin 336W in 30-30win. We are gathering up the goods to start reloading shells for it and wondered what others are using for powder in their 336's. We are using 160grn Hornady FTX bullets. Of course all four reloading books I've looked into all have different powders listed as to what works best. I am thinking IMR 3031 (as that is what I use in my BLR in .308), or Winchester 748, or H4895. I am looking to get a minimum of 2000fps out of it. Has anyone tried the Hornady lever evolution powder?

Thanks for the help.
 
What shoots well in my 30-30 might shoot like crap in your rifle, even if we used the exact same components your barrel could vibrate differently and effect your group size.

You will need to pick a powder or powders and your components and work up a load for "your" rifle.

bare2_zps62272daa.gif


That being said I have used W-748 and Rem primers for 30 years in my 30-30, it meters well and your not loading for a bench rest rifle. And on top of this you have a fore stock and magazine tube clamped to the barrel that effect barrel vibrations.

I'm not trying to ruin your day but just changing brands of cases can have a big effect on chamber pressure and the accuracy of your rifle, so nothing is written in stone.
 
Your wife has a very good rifle and your goal of 2000 fps with the 160 grain bullet is very doable.
First off, go by the weight of the bullet and pay no attention to who made the bullet. In other words, use the data for any 160 grain bullet. The two very popular bullet weights for the 30-30 are 150 and 170. You could interpose also, to estimate the data for a 160 grain bullet.
Du Pont (IMR) 3031 has been a popular powder for the 30-30 for a hundred plus years. However, the loading charts have changed drastically, over the years, as to how much powder to use. The original loads gave the 170 grain bullet the velocity a 30-30 was supposed to go. However, the modern loading manuals show a much smaller charge of powder, as much as 4 or more grains less, so we won't go any further with that one.
There is a salvation in the way of a newer powder which is far better for the 30-30 class rifles. This is Hodgdon's Leverevolution powder, called LVR.
I have a bottle of LVR in front of me now. They have a limited loading chart printed right on the powder container, which even shows a load for the 30-30 using the 160 grain Hdy. FTX bullet!
Their chart shows 35.5 grains of LVR with the 160 grain FTX bullet for a speed of 2389 fps. This figure is likely well above what will actually be made, but this powder would seem to be ideal for your purpose.
 
I've always had good results with either W748 and Reloader 15. Buy a Hornady manual or search reputable sites online for data for the specific bullets you intend to use. Start low, work your way up to a suitable load. I would also recommend that you try to find an experienced handloader in your area to help you with your first few sessions.

Good luck and enjoy :)
 
Also understand this, there are a lot of "older" rifles still floating around and being reloaded for and the ammunition manufactures and reloading manuals play it safe.

Second, when you work up a load as long as the primer is protruding from your fired cases the chamber pressure isn't high enough to cause the brass case to stretch and meet the bolt face. As long as the primer is protruding and the cartridge is headspacing on the primer your not in the chamber pressure danger zone.

P.O. Ackley took the locking lugs out of a 30-30 rifle and test fired this rifle and the case didn't move to the rear and nothing happened to the rifle. I have older manuals that show hotter loads and I stop increasing the charge when the primer just becomes flush with the base of the case when fired. I have 30-30 cases that are over 25 years old and they all die from split necks and not annealing the case necks and not from over pressure.

Read the posting below and pay attention to the 7th post and being five grains above max, so again learn to "read" your primers, each firearm will be different. I'm not activating that anyone exceeds published maximums but your primers will tell you a pressure story and load data is not written in stone.

336 primers back out? UPDATE !
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/336/68879-336-primers-back-out-update.html
 
Your wife has a very good rifle and your goal of 2000 fps with the 160 grain bullet is very doable.
First off, go by the weight of the bullet and pay no attention to who made the bullet. In other words, use the data for any 160 grain bullet. The two very popular bullet weights for the 30-30 are 150 and 170. You could interpose also, to estimate the data for a 160 grain bullet.
Du Pont (IMR) 3031 has been a popular powder for the 30-30 for a hundred plus years. However, the loading charts have changed drastically, over the years, as to how much powder to use. The original loads gave the 170 grain bullet the velocity a 30-30 was supposed to go. However, the modern loading manuals show a much smaller charge of powder, as much as 4 or more grains less, so we won't go any further with that one.
There is a salvation in the way of a newer powder which is far better for the 30-30 class rifles. This is Hodgdon's Leverevolution powder, called LVR.
I have a bottle of LVR in front of me now. They have a limited loading chart printed right on the powder container, which even shows a load for the 30-30 using the 160 grain Hdy. FTX bullet!
Their chart shows 35.5 grains of LVR with the 160 grain FTX bullet for a speed of 2389 fps. This figure is likely well above what will actually be made, but this powder would seem to be ideal for your purpose.

Thanks H4831, I haven't gotten to price compare the LVR powder to the Win748 but I definitely will. I am not looking for a sub MOA bench rest gun, it just needs to accurately and quickly take down deer and bear. I will probably start with the 748 and try a few loads to compare to the 3031 then move to the LVR if I am not happy with the results.
 
I use lvr with 170 grain Hornady interlocks in my 20" model 94 and I get 2200 fps (chronied) and exceptional accuracy.

That powder really shines at max listed charges, the groups just tighten right up .

I got best results with a cci200 primer.
 
:popCorn:

Hope this was just a typo :0

Bassman

When you pull the trigger on a firearm you release the firing pin and it moves forward and hits the primer. The firing pin proceeds to push the cartridge forward until the rim, the belt or the shoulder of the case contacts the chamber. The cartridge then goes "BANG" and as pressure starts to build it pushes the primer out of the primer pocket. As the pressure builds further it will push the case back against the bolt face as pictured below.

HeadClearance_zpsf30a3af1.gif


On lower pressure cartridges like the 30-30 if you follow modern reloading manuals the primer will always protrude from the rear of the case and only the primer will be touching the bolt face. This is called headspaceing on the primer because the rear of the case never touches the bolt face. In the older reloading manuals for the 30-30 the max load was higher than it is today and the 30-30 primer would be flush with the rear of the case.

On a rimmed cartridge if you measure your rim thickness and the amount the primer is protruding from the rear of the case you have your total headspace. Thus if the primer is protruding from the rear of a 30-30 case it is headspacing on the primer.

hedspace-b_zpsce06e3e4.gif


And if your were not wasting your time eating popcorn when you worked up a load you would see the primers protruding from the rear of the case until enough chamber pressure was generated to push the case against the bolt face as the load is increased.

And if you had bothered to read the link I posted in my previous posting "Re: 336 primers back out?" you would have seen this person was five grains over max and the primers were still backing out of the case.

Now remember this, reloading manuals are not written in stone and all loading data varies, the two charts below represent two .223 cases that vary 1.8 grains of H20 in case capacity. They also vary 6,000 psi in chamber pressure with the same charge of 25 grains of H335 powder. And this is just "ONE" variable in all your reloading component possibilities that effect chamber pressure and working up a load, and not counting the firearm itself.

308_zpsf81bb4cc.jpg


288_zps26698a67.jpg


So do us all a favor and put down your popcorn and make up a workup load for any rifle you have starting at the suggested starting load and working up to maximum and "LOOK" at your primer as you do this.

Now look at the chart below for the .223/5.56, keeping in mind the max rated pressure for the .223 and 5.56 is 55,000 psi. The factory loaded .223 cartridge on the left was only loaded to 49,000 psi, "BUT" the military 5.56 on the right was loaded to 55,000 psi.

barnes-pressure_zps9347fe41.jpg


Bottom line, factory ammunition is very seldom loaded to max pressures for the same reason the loading manuals are listing lighter loads. In today's world there must be enough room in the chamber for the cartridge to fit along with the company lawyer. And there are a lot of very old and well worn 30-30 rifle still being used today and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Now read the Google links below and don't get any popcorn butter on your keyboard as you educate yourself.

why do primers back out
https://www.google.com/#q=why+do+primers+back+out


Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) reloading forum below (they are the ones who sell our M1 Grands to us)

Primer set back on reloads. (.30-06, M1)

Post #6

"Primers that "back out" after firing usually indicates the chamber headspace is longer than that of the cartridge. However, this condition normally occurs when the chamber pressure is on the low side; low enough that the case "adheres" to the chamber and the primer backs out to meet the bolt face. If a cartridge's headspace is less than the chamber, with a full pressure load, then the case will stretch to match that of the chamber, and the primer will not back out. If you increase your powder charge, this condition should not happen."

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=51804
 
I use lvr with 170 grain Hornady interlocks in my 20" model 94 and I get 2200 fps (chronied) and exceptional accuracy.

That powder really shines at max listed charges, the groups just tighten right up .

I got best results with a cci200 primer.

About identical to what I got. I tested the Hodgdon on line load of 36.3 grains of LVR, with the 170 grain bullet and the Chrony showed av. of 2260.
This is far and away better than any other load out of a modern manual will get with any other powder.
 
Thanks bigedp51 for the info on the primers. I never new that but it is something I will be watching on all of my reloading from now on. Thanks to everyone else too. I think I am going to start my first box of rounds with the IMR30-30 since that is what I have around then get some of that LVR. The numbers are too good not to try it.
 
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