Help understanding rules for Prohibited 12.6

Andronicus

Andronicus

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So, I would like a prohibited license. My brother has a pre-1946 heirloom prohibited revolver.

If my brother bought a second prohibited from Marstar or someone, then transferred the heirloom prohibited to me, would he be able to maintain his prohibited license?

If it matters, he got his prohibited license in 2005 or 2006 (I'm not 100% sure which year the transfer was completed after my grandmother passed away). Seems 2005 is some sort of magic year in regards to 12.6 prohibiteds?
 
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Andronicus said:
The information pages seem to indicate that pre-1946 prohibiteds can be transferred to next of kin. Am I missing something?
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That is correct. The issue is with your brother buying another prohib.

Iirc your brother can't buy another prohibited. If he got the first gun in the 2000s then next of kin would be his only way to get more, as he doesn't have a 12.6 license.

Iirc (which could very well be wrong as I've never dealt with this) he has a 12.6 gun but he obtained it with the provisions of 12.7 which does not allow him to buy more 12.6 guns.
 
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Suther said:
That is correct. The issue is with your brother buying another prohib.

Iirc your brother can't buy another prohibited. If he got the first gun in the 2000s then next of kin would be his only way to get more, as he doesn't have a 12.6 license.

Iirc (which could very well be wrong as I've never dealt with this) he has a 12.6 gun but he obtained it with the provisions of 12.7 which does not allow him to buy more 12.6 guns.
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my father in law is 12.6 we buy a gun eligible for 12.7 through him then transfer to my wife. my wife cannot buy 12.6 guns. the gun your brother has is the only one he can get.
 
Andronicus said:
The information pages seem to indicate that pre-1946 prohibiteds can be transferred to next of kin. Am I missing something?
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Your brother is actually what is commonly known as 12 (7). Which means he has inherited a pre 1946 12 (6) firearm. He cannot purchase any other 12 (6) firearms. Anyone who didn't have prohib firearms before the Libs last attack can not get a prohib license now, sorry. - dan
 
Andronicus said:
So, I would like a prohibited license. My brother has a pre-1946 heirloom prohibited revolver.

If my brother bought a second prohibited from Marstar or someone, then transferred the heirloom prohibited to me, would he be able to maintain his prohibited license?

If it matters, he got his prohibited license in 2005 or 2006 (I'm not 100% sure which year the transfer was completed after my grandmother passed away). Seems 2005 is some sort of magic year in regards to 12.6 prohibiteds?
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As some other members have said, the key here is to see *exactly* what is printed on the back of your brother's PAL. If it reads "12(6)" then you'd be good to go, however if it reads: "12(7) Inherited Handgun" then this is not possible.

It is unlikely that it is a proper 12(6) designation if granted that late, however there was a time in the early 2000's when some were able to slip through the cracks. It should also be noted that it was possible to have a 12(6) *POL only* prior to Bill C-42, I know someone who did but now buys/sells 12(6) after C-42 converted all remaining POL's to PAL's - it is possible that your brother did something like this.

IF your brother indeed has a 12(6) then he can buy/sell as many as he wants, including pre-1946 pistols to transfer to you, however he must keep at least one gun registered to him at all times or the designation will be revoked. If it is only a 12(7) then he will not be able to purchase any more prohibs himself, only receive them from a living family member who holds a valid 12(6) (if such family member exists of course)
 
Milspectacles said:
As some other members have said, the key here is to see *exactly* what is printed on the back of your brother's PAL. If it reads "12(6)" then you'd be good to go, however if it reads: "12(7) Inherited Handgun" then this is not possible.

It is unlikely that it is a proper 12(6) designation if granted that late, however there was a time in the early 2000's when some were able to slip through the cracks. It should also be noted that it was possible to have a 12(6) *POL only* prior to Bill C-42, I know someone who did but now buys/sells 12(6) after C-42 converted all remaining POL's to PAL's - it is possible that your brother did something like this.

IF your brother indeed has a 12(6) then he can buy/sell as many as he wants, including pre-1946 pistols to transfer to you, however he must keep at least one gun registered to him at all times or the designation will be revoked. If it is only a 12(7) then he will not be able to purchase any more prohibs himself, only receive them from a living family member who holds a valid 12(6) (if such family member exists of course)
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Damn. We should have been having my grandmother buying prohibiteds for us in the 1990's...

I'll ask him to check his license.
 
Anyone that has 12-6 had to have a gun before C68 passed final reading.
Going from a POL to a PAL would not change anything.
In 2005 he would not have 12-6 , it will be a 12-7 as others have said.
Unless you have another family member ,mother? with 12-6, you are sol.

BTW , this whole class b.s is so damn silly, typical govn't that don't have a clue what they are doing.
 
My brother confirmed it is 12(7). Just to confirm. My brother can transfer the gun to me, but then he would loose his prohibited licence.
 
Andronicus said:
My brother confirmed it is 12(7). Just to confirm. My brother can transfer the gun to me, but then he would loose his prohibited licence.
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Yes. That's exactly what would happen, he would lose his 12.7 if you get the gun. But you could always transfer it back later and he would get his 12.7 back (and you'd lose it). You guys just can't buy em.
 
Light Infantry said:
Not sure why you say that. It is a legitimate way to get a 12.6. What am I missing?
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I wouldn't trust the RCMP in this political climate to not find a way to call that a straw purchase. They don't always follow the law in it's simplest form.
12(7) was designed for family "heirlooms" to be passed down to family members. Buying guns for yourself/wife through your father in law's 12(6) so you can get them under 12(7) could be interpreted as straw purchases by the RCMP.
I would just be careful advertising this is all.
They do read these forums.
 
Andronicus said:
So, I would like a prohibited license. My brother has a pre-1946 heirloom prohibited revolver.
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He could transfer it to you (assuming that you have a valid restricted-endorsed PAL), but the revolver would then be considered 12.7 category prohibited (rather than 12.6 category prohibited).

If my brother bought a second prohibited from Marstar or someone, then transferred the heirloom prohibited to me, would he be able to maintain his prohibited license?
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Yes, provided that he never lets his (grandfathered) firearms license lapse, and he never is without at least one (grandfathered) 12.6 category prohibited handgun (registered to him). Otherwise, he'd lose his status.

If it matters, he got his prohibited license in 2005 or 2006 (I'm not 100% sure which year the transfer was completed after my grandmother passed away). Seems 2005 is some sort of magic year in regards to 12.6 prohibiteds?
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It wouldn't matter. Whether it is 12.6 or 12.7, a grandfathered individual may transfer a grandfathered 12.6 or 12.7 category prohibited handgun to his brother (as well as some other stipulated individuals). So, not only can your brother transfer it to you, as a 12.7, you could then transfer it to another person who is included on that list such as a father, mother, sister, brother, wife, husband, child, etc.

Firearms Act (S.C. 1995, c. 39)
<https://www.laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/f-11.6/index.html>

Conditions of Transferring Firearms and Other Weapons Regulations (SOR/98-202)
<Conditions of Transferring Firearms and Other Weapons Regulations (SOR/98-202)>

Next of kin of grandfathered individuals

(7) A particular individual is eligible to hold a licence authorizing the particular individual to possess a particular handgun referred to in subsection (6.1) that was manufactured before 1946 if the particular individual is the spouse or common-law partner or a brother, sister, child or grandchild of an individual who was eligible under this subsection or subsection (6) to hold a licence authorizing the individual to possess the particular handgun.

Marginal note:Grandfathered individuals — regulations re prohibited firearms

(8) An individual is, in the prescribed circumstances, eligible to hold a licence authorizing the individual to possess firearms prescribed by a provision of regulations made by the Governor in Council under section 117.15 of the Criminal Code to be prohibited firearms if the individual

(a) on the day on which the provision comes into force possesses one or more of those firearms; and

(b) beginning on

(i) the day on which that provision comes into force, or

(ii) in the case of an individual who on that day did not hold but had applied for a registration certificate for one or more of those firearms, the day on which the registration certificate was issued

was continuously the holder of a registration certificate for one or more of those firearms.

Marginal note:Grandfathered individuals — regulations

(9) An individual is eligible to hold a licence authorizing the individual to possess prohibited firearms of a prescribed class if the individual

(a) possesses one or more firearms of that class on a day that is prescribed with respect to that class;

(b) holds a registration certificate for one or more firearms of that class in the circumstances prescribed with respect to that class; and

(c) was continuously the holder of a registration certificate for one or more firearms of that class beginning on the day that is prescribed — or that is determined under the regulations — with respect to that class.

1995, c. 39, s. 12 2000, c. 12, s. 117 2003, c. 8, s. 142019, c. 9, s. 3


<https://www.laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/f-11.6/page-2.html#h-223226>
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Hitzy said:
I wouldn't trust the RCMP in this political climate to not find a way to call that a straw purchase. They don't always follow the law in it's simplest form.
12(7) was designed for family "heirlooms" to be passed down to family members. Buying guns for yourself/wife through your father in law's 12(6) so you can get them under 12(7) could be interpreted as straw purchases by the RCMP.
I would just be careful advertising this is all.
They do read these forums.
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'Straw purchase' is an American term, wherein the individual who completes the transfer form lies about being the actual buyer of the firearm. When it happens, the individual can be charged criminally for the lie (i.e.: 'lying on a federal form').

Light Infantry is discussing a legal 12.6 transfer (to father-in-law), followed by another legal 12.7 transfer (to a daughter), followed by another legal 12.7 transfer (to a husband).

That isn't a 'straw purchase', and there is nothing illegal about it.
 
Wendell said:
'Straw purchase' is an American term, wherein the individual who completes the transfer form lies about being the actual buyer of the firearm. When it happens, the individual can be charged criminally for the lie (i.e.: 'lying on a federal form').

Light Infantry is discussing a legal 12.6 transfer (to father-in-law), followed by another legal 12.7 transfer (to a daughter), followed by another legal 12.7 transfer (to a husband).

That isn't a 'straw purchase', and there is nothing illegal about it.
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I believe he was referring to this post;

"my father in law is 12.6 we buy a gun eligible for 12.7 through him then transfer to my wife. my wife cannot buy 12.6 guns. the gun your brother has is the only one he can get.".

And I can see why. When explained that way, it would certainly get the interest of the authorities, and not in a good way. - dan
 
how could it possibly be a straw purchase the rcmp can trace the fire arm right to everyone involved? the transfer gets done on the phone with the rcmp and they know exactly what's happening sometimes they request pics of the guns to have the lab confirm the serial number to make sure it's made before 1946. the law clearly allows for this and there's nothing wrong with it.
 
brian27 said:
how could it possibly be a straw purchase the rcmp can trace the fire arm right to everyone involved? the transfer gets done on the phone with the rcmp and they know exactly what's happening sometimes they request pics of the guns to have the lab confirm the serial number to make sure it's made before 1946. the law clearly allows for this and there's nothing wrong with it.
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Just sayin don't advertise it, or do so at your own peril. RCMP are funny with firearm laws.
s.12(7): inherited handguns made prior to 1946 that fall under the s. 12(6.1) category.
Stating you are buying guns for yourself through your FIL 12/6 would create some serious discussion about what "inherited" means under a legal definition.
I'd you trust your own legal expertise, by all means tell the world.
 
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