Help with my precision build and shooting skills...

Your biggest friend will be a high quality muzzle brake.

I am currently having the same issue with my M96 Mauser build. It is a tack driver from the bag rest, but on a bipod ( I use a Versa-Pod Parker-Hale clone with the hand stop and rail mounting system ) a muzzle brake will all but eliminate the jump from the muzzle. I have yet to have one put on my 24" Gaillard barrel, but it is in the plans for my near term future additions to my rifle.

Bedding the action to the stock and free floating the barrel are big accuracy adders, but if the load is giving you barrel whip followed with jump, you tend to want to flinch your shots and it kills your grouping.

A high quality trigger group will eliminate the creep-bang military type trigger pull with its gravelly feel, but the lighter the pull the more you tend to anticipate the let off.

Save up and get that brake installed and see where it puts you on the target afterwards. Then you can start tuning your ammo to suit your rifles characteristics.
 
Hondroid - thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to take the rifle to a good gun smith, and if everything is good I will have him put a brake on. I have Tikka T3x I can keep without a brake for use in competition without a brake if needed.
 
Here's the thing, none of these suggestions for a muzzle brake, chassis, better trigger, better bipod etc will shrink your groups like shooting match ammo or reloads tailored to your rifle. Buy a box of FGMM with a bullet weight suitable to your barrel's twist rate (175s for a 10 twist, 168s for a 12 twist) and see how it shoots. Odds are it'll shoot 1 moa or slightly better. If you keep shooting ball ammo, you'll be chasing your tail endlessly with regards to improving your skills, was that "flyer" you or the ammo? Pretty much the whole point of a precision rifle system is removing or diminishing all the variables that cause a rifle to be inaccurate so that you can isolate the shooter and work on improving. I'm not saying stop shooting ball ammo entirely, use it for practicing positional stuff on appropriately sized gongs or targets. There just is no improvement that you can make to your rifle that will turn 2 moa ball ammo into 1 moa ammo. You at least owe it to yourself to try a box of match ammo to set a baseline of what your rifle system is capable of, then start reloading and try to match and then surpass that baseline.
 
Rugbydave - I will buy a box of his quality rounds soon. Unless you think otherwise, I was just going to wait until I had worked a little with someone on my technique and to get my muzzle to stay on target. Thank you though
 
Rem700WIN said:
Rugbydave - I will buy a box of his quality rounds soon. Unless you think otherwise, I was just going to wait until I had worked a little with someone on my technique and to get my muzzle to stay on target. Thank you though
Click to expand...

I gotta ask.
Why is it so important to have your muzzle stay on Target, while Target shooting?
The brake is not going to totally eliminate,muzzle movement.
I’ve shot with and without one.
I find it’s no big deal, if it takes a couple more seconds, to get back on Target.
Not while punching paper,anyways.

Fire some quality ammo through it first,as is.
You may be surprised.
 
If you are alone to shoot and you are working on getting better, may I suggest filming yourself when shooting. Sometimes, what you "think" you are doing and what you are doing while shooting are 2 different stories. :)
 
Brianma65 - My aim for shooting is more of a tactical use. So eventually follow up shots with be something I will be practicing and training. I will be trying to get better control of my rifle before I get a muzzle brake though. I think this way I am less trying to fix the issue with a brake (if that makes sense).

Black Jack - I actually have a few times, in an attempt to not just see myself but show other experienced shooters. It would seem people need multiple angles (and not just front and side) to diagnose issues. A very good suggestion though, thank you. I will be using it in the future as I think it's the best way to remind yourself of a lot of things.
 
Rem700WIN said:
Rugbydave - I will buy a box of his quality rounds soon. Unless you think otherwise, I was just going to wait until I had worked a little with someone on my technique and to get my muzzle to stay on target. Thank you though
Click to expand...

What I was trying to get at was that for you to improve and/or diagnose any issues in your technique, you should have a baseline of what your rifle can do with match ammo. The muzzle brake will help keep your muzzle on target and spot splash and whatnot but that's all pretty irrelevant to the mechanical accuracy of the rifle. You're shooting ball ammo through a factory barrel. I'm not even sure if you've tried a few different brands of ball ammo to see which shoots best in your rifle or you're just rolling with the Aguila since it's reasonably priced? You may well be shooting that ammo as well as it can be shot in your barrel. If that's the case, you may well be printing sub-moa groups with match ammo. Then if you want to keep shooting ball ammo to put more rounds down range, just understand what the accuracy potential of that ammo is.
 
rugbydave - I get what you are saying now...

I've ordered a few different boxes from my local CTC including FGMM:
- PMC Bronze .308 WIN 147GR
- Federal Lake City surplus XM80C 149gr 7.62x51
- Federal Gold Match - .308 Win, 168g (I figures this should give me a pretty good idea).

Still looking to order some boxes of other brands but I'm also trying to get them all from as few sources as possible so I'm not spending ridiculous money on shipping. Looking to order the following in 20rnd boxes for testing (suggestions from the CGN members and my own research):

- GGG (Lithuanian) 7.62x51 147gr

- Norinco .308/7.62x51 147gr
- Brown Bear .308 145gr
- Monarch .308 145gr
- Prvi Partizan M80 7.62x51 145gr



- Hirtenberger 7.62x51 147gr

If anyone has some more suggestions for rounds that are $30/$35 a box that I can get hold of in Canada, please let me know. Willing to order Monarch/Brown Bear in bulk as I have read/seen enough reviews that shows it's a good round for the money.

Thanks!
 
At $35 box, you'll pay for a reloading setup in no time! Even a basic lee kit will get you going....
Also dont forget if you buy quality ammo, you can use the brass to load with - brass quality DOES matter for accuracy. I am not sure if some of that surplus stuff is even reloadable.
You should be able to load match grade or better for $20 box using Sierra or Hornady match bullets if you save your (good) brass.

Lets do some simple math....


Reloading kit $200
Dies/stuff $150
Bullets (300) $120
2 lbs Varget $80
Primers $25

Total $525 for 15 boxes

FGMM, 15 boxes x $40 = $600

Then, next 300 rounds/15 boxes reloaded, $225 total, or $15 per box.
 
- GGG (Lithuanian) 7.62x51 147gr
- Norinco .308/7.62x51 147gr
- Brown Bear .308 145gr
- Monarch .308 145gr
- Prvi Partizan M80 7.62x51 145g
- Hirtenberger 7.62x51 147gr

I wouldn't bother with any of that stuff. Once you get into reloading you'll understand why. 90% of a match quality cartridge relates to the bullet itself - in particular the manufacturing tolerances and form. You'll not likely get that with the above. Additionally, rifles will preferentially tune to given bullet weight - something that is easy to investigate with reloads. BTW - a popular trick is to pull the bullets from cheapo or milsurp ammo, and replace them with better quality bullets. And you don't have to spend a fortune to get good bullets - good old flat base Hornady spire points (35$/100) will bring the best out of your rifle at the distance you are shooting.
 
The Hirtenberger is probably as good as any 7.62 ball you are going to find.
Later production is Boxer primed, so the cases are readily reloadable.
To really find out how well you and/or the rifle are shooting, you will need real match ammunition, factory or handloaded.
Sooner or later, you will need to look at handloading.
 
I get anytime <0.75'' and very frequently <0.5'' for 5 shot groups at 100m with a stock 700P LTR with my reloads and a cheap bipod. When I don't, I need to leave the range and take a break as I am the problem. The HS stock has an aluminum bedding block, no need to do anything with it to get down under 1MOA. Even with the stock trigger, your rifle is good enough to give you way better results that what you get now. I would not spend any money on anything else than either a good reloading kit or match quality ammo. Do you have a cheek rest ? This is relatively cheap and can help a lot keeping a good position. Muzzle flip should not affect your accuracy that much, heck, it's only a 308.

Use good 168gr ammo or reloads and practice with it and see what it does. While your 1:12 twist is fine with 175, it can be limit with some specific bullets. Your rifle is fine unless something wrong has been done on your barrel when it got cut down. It should give you <1MOA without any problems even if your are not a pro.
 
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