Help with new rifle buy
- Thread starter Engineer
- Start date
While I have no experience with precision shooting I was kinda thinking the same thing, a guy could get a Varmint HB in 308 and have it in a Robertson stock for the cost of a Tik-Tac. Makes me wonder what makes the Tik-Tac worth so much more than a Varmint?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Short answer YES. Either will be the best compromise for the uses you suggest. I like the HS stock better for fit. YMMV
Of course, bedding is a necessity and bolt timing work will make life so much nicer. PM me if you would like some work done.
There are now extended mags for the Savage and that center feed mag works really well. For tact shooting, it is the closest thing to an AI mag/bottom metal set up. When shooting F class, just drop a shell on the mag lips and single shot away. Or get the single shot follower for the mag.
The accutrigger is superb and all you could want in a 2.5lbs trigger. If you get used to this weight, it really isn't a big hindrance when shooting F class.
To get competitive, spin on a quality barrel (prethreaded/chambered Shilen or McGowen, or a shoulder headspaced whatever), invest in a Remple skipod or front tripod rest and you will be right there in any F class division you choose to compete it.
I would recommend that you have some ability to add lead when shooting F class. You have the ability to shoot a heavy rifle and no one gets points for bruised shoulders.
Good luck with your quest. Personally, if going with the 308, I would suggest a fast twist 223 instead. Ballistics are near identical and shooting is so much more enjoyable/cheaper.
Jerry
If you want a detachable mag on a Remmy, add about $400-$500. Comes free with the Savage.
I traveled the same road about 4 months ago and I went with the Savage 10FCP HS Precision and am very happy with it.
- Location
- ON in the 519
Good advice from Jerry. I bought a 5R 700 in 308 as my first CF and wasn't able to shoot many rounds or get any type of group. I bought a SPS Varmint in 223 that will get a new barrel and stock eventually but I can shoot it all day and with lighter bullets can get impressive groups (for me).
223 all the way.
Thanks Jerry.
I hadn't really thought about a .223 as I was focused on a .308 to round out the stable. I already have an AR in .223, and you'e right about enjoyable to shoot.
How does the .223 stack up in F-Class?
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
First rate match ammo is very expensive for a .308, and somewhat difficult to find. First rate match ammo for .223 is much more difficult to find, so it's more important to handload for a .223 than for a .308 (this would only be a factor if you want to shoot factory ammo).
Out to 600m, a good .223 with good ammo (handloaded 80gr-class bullets) is fully the peer of a good .308 with good ammo (commercial $2+/rd match ammo, or handloaded 155-175gr bullets).
At 900m, a .308/155 is marginal but it is straightforward enough to make them work. A .223/80 is even more marginal - it can be done, but it is much more of a job for a master reloader.
Since you are shooting in NS (?), the longest range there is 800m (NSRA Bull Meadow). Since you don't have the ".223 900m problem", I'd be increasingly tempted to suggest that the .223 would really be the way to go for you.
Making ammo for the .223 is cheaper than for the .308, if that matters.
Shooting a .223 extremely well is a bit easier than shooting a .308 extremely well. Depending on how long it takes you to master flinching, trigger control etc (it took me a *LONG* time), you might find yourself getting to the next level of mastering sooner with a .223.
Whether you buy a .223 or a .308, make sure you get one that is as good (accurate) as you possibly can. The more accurate your rifle, the more fun you'll have, and the faster you'll master shooting it.
Jerry, I don't want to sidetrack the thread, but what would you think about a 12 VLP in .223 for fun shooting? What about the twist rate (assuming factory ammo) and internal vs. detachable mag options?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I have pretty much switched all my '308' type shooting to the 223 because LR ballistics is near identical.
I have been shooting 80gr Amax and Berger WELL beyond 1000yds so distance is not an issue. This is sub MOA accuracy if you can dope conditions.
Neither is good as a wind bucker and share the same needs to be a good condition doper. We all need to be if you want any plastic.
I have shot enough 308 to have a good idea on comparisons and I don't see any tangible wind drift reduction for the amount of abuse you put up with.
Just finished shooting with a guy who was pushing 175gr MK's right around 2800fps and he used the same scope adjustments I had for my 223/80gr set up (similar velocity). We shot out to 1300yds.
I just don't see how you could get accuracy from factory ammo on par with tuned handloads in any cal. For best accuracy, handloading is the only option for me.
The only real advantage the 308 gives you is a bigger hole in the target and when shooting score, that can add a point sooner or later. However, if you can't handle the recoil, you will just make bigger holes where they don't belong
If I were to shoot F/F, I would use the 223 and 80gr VLD's.
JimV, I really like the VLP laminated stock and consider it one of my favorites for a field varminter. Not as good as the BVSS for riding bags but then the BVSS is not as good as a field stock so.....
I like det mags especially if leaving the bench. If static, really whatever suits your fancy. They both work very well.
When the stock gets bedded properly, I would expect 1/2 to 3/4 Min accuracy to be very achieveable with 75gr Amax or Bergers over varget. These are bullets you can shoot well beyond 1000yds. As long as you load for reducing vertical dispersion, you can have as much fun as the scope will crank up.
As for using factory ammo, I can't say as I have not shot any factory ammo in many years excluding surplus 'rinco. The 223 needs a careful eye when adjusting powder charges for best accuracy. Some have had very good luck with Win white box varmint ammo but they tend to shoot close up.
For LR plinking, any of the Vmax, Amax and Bergers up to 75gr VLD will get the job done.
The furthest I have seen a factory savage shoot was out to a mile. Didn't have the loads as dialed in as possible but it definitely made the trip.
Jerry
I have been shooting 80gr Amax and Berger WELL beyond 1000yds so distance is not an issue. This is sub MOA accuracy if you can dope conditions.
Neither is good as a wind bucker and share the same needs to be a good condition doper. We all need to be if you want any plastic.
I have shot enough 308 to have a good idea on comparisons and I don't see any tangible wind drift reduction for the amount of abuse you put up with.
Just finished shooting with a guy who was pushing 175gr MK's right around 2800fps and he used the same scope adjustments I had for my 223/80gr set up (similar velocity). We shot out to 1300yds.
I just don't see how you could get accuracy from factory ammo on par with tuned handloads in any cal. For best accuracy, handloading is the only option for me.
The only real advantage the 308 gives you is a bigger hole in the target and when shooting score, that can add a point sooner or later. However, if you can't handle the recoil, you will just make bigger holes where they don't belong
If I were to shoot F/F, I would use the 223 and 80gr VLD's.
JimV, I really like the VLP laminated stock and consider it one of my favorites for a field varminter. Not as good as the BVSS for riding bags but then the BVSS is not as good as a field stock so.....
I like det mags especially if leaving the bench. If static, really whatever suits your fancy. They both work very well.
When the stock gets bedded properly, I would expect 1/2 to 3/4 Min accuracy to be very achieveable with 75gr Amax or Bergers over varget. These are bullets you can shoot well beyond 1000yds. As long as you load for reducing vertical dispersion, you can have as much fun as the scope will crank up.
As for using factory ammo, I can't say as I have not shot any factory ammo in many years excluding surplus 'rinco. The 223 needs a careful eye when adjusting powder charges for best accuracy. Some have had very good luck with Win white box varmint ammo but they tend to shoot close up.
For LR plinking, any of the Vmax, Amax and Bergers up to 75gr VLD will get the job done.
The furthest I have seen a factory savage shoot was out to a mile. Didn't have the loads as dialed in as possible but it definitely made the trip.
Jerry
Hmm. I'm not a big guy by any means (140lbs soaking wet), but I can't say I've ever found recoil on my .308 to be a problem. With an F class rifle, it's substantial enough to soak up a lot of the recoil, and what's left gets absorbed by the shooting jacket.
Maybe I need to try .223 for comparison's sake.
Maybe I need to try .223 for comparison's sake.
Engineer...
I would be willing to let you try out the F/TR some time if you are interested to see what it's like. PM me and we can probably work something out. Perhaps some of the other shooters around Dartmouth/Halifax would also like to get out for a *fun* match at the same time...
I would be willing to let you try out the F/TR some time if you are interested to see what it's like. PM me and we can probably work something out. Perhaps some of the other shooters around Dartmouth/Halifax would also like to get out for a *fun* match at the same time...
I wasn't thinking that far ahead, thanks. I hear that commercial ammunition and brass are limited as well. I think I'll pass on the 6.8 then.
