Help with proof marks please.

Steppenwolf

Steppenwolf

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I bought this SxS shotgun at the last gunshow. It is 12 gauge made by C.G. Bonehill and is a "Belmont Interchangeable" model. Barrels are marked "Fine Damascus". Looking at the proof marks I believe it was made pre 1905 and is proofed for black powder and nitrocellulose powder. Any help deciphering these marks would be appreciated. It is in very good condition but sadly it is missing one lock and both hammers. But it is worth the $35 I paid for it. I wonder why metal some times appears rusted in photos when it isn't?
cgn2w.jpg

cgn3.jpg

cgn4.jpg

cgn1.jpg

I wonder why metal some times appears rusted in photos when it isn't?
 
The diamond C for a choke bored barrel was introduced in 1887. Bonehill's factory was known as the Belmont Gun Works presumably after the street it was on. The firm was in business until 1965. The best indication that the gun was reproved and perhaps rechambered probably in the early 1900s is the diamond with a C and LC in it --- the LC indicates long chamber but you will notice there is also a diamond C indicating a standard chamber. It also seems to have been proven for 1 1/2 oz of shot if I interpret the 1 1/2 correctly

cheers mooncoon
 
Nice gun, you should be able to find parts for it on Gunbroker or something like that... To my understanding, SXS are pretty common.

The crown and the indication "NP" indicates "British Nitro Proof"... kind of like on the Webley revolvers (my MKI Webley has the identical proofing marks all over the frame, barrel and cylinder). It is probably the mark that matters the most, as it indicates that the gun was tested with smokeless powder and is rated for such. It is also a good indicator that the gun is British.

As for the photos, what you see is actually over-exposed patina. Patina being actually very fine surface rust that's so dark it can be sometimes confused with blueing, it is no surprise that it shows its' true colors when a camera flash hits it.

Congrats on the price you paid, btw... $35 is really awesome, even with the missing parts. Does this thing require registration or is it a straight antique?
 
Well, I would have paid $35 for it.
How are the bores? Tight action?
Replacing the lock is going to be a bit of a challenge.
If you could find a decent quality left hand lock, a new lockplate could be made, and the parts transferred. Hammer pairs can be had. In a way, replacing both hammers is not a bad thing - the hammers will match.
It will be an interesting and challenging project.
 
The right hand bore has one pit the rest is very smooth and shiny. The action is tight. It is one of the nicest handling shotgun I have ever held. I am thinking of buying a lock or donor gun and, like you suggested, transferring the parts to a new lock plate.
 
It appears that the gun has indeed been proofed for black powder at one time to be later reproofed for nitro.


An article by collector Udo E Troester was published in the german magazine 'Deutsches Waffen-Journal' revealing his research on what were commonly thought to be Birmingham private view marks, disclosing them actualy to be coded date marks.


The mark of the crossed swords and code letter shown to the left of the pic is a date code. The system was introduced in Birmingham in 1921 by the then Proof Master Lieutenant Colonel Charles Playfair.

The 'A' signifies that the gun was viewed sometime between 1 July 1921 to 30 June 1922 by the chief inspector (the two marks underneath signifing the seniority of the inspector).

Colonel playfair died in 1941 and the system fell into dissuse.

A similar system was devised by a later Proof Master J.P.Lees. He modified the symbology of the old mark and reintroduced it in Jan 1952.

The crossed sword mark on the right has overstruck the cartridge info diamond making it impossible to read it in its entirety, so it is inconclusive, but it is definately a post 1952 Birmingham mark. The NITRO PROOF would have been applied at this time.

If the markings on the other barrel are not overstruck, I might be able to peg the year it was nitro proofed.

All arms had to be proofed for sale on the commercial market in England. Why would it be proofed a second time? Perhaps the gun was reproofed for nitro to enhance its sale potential to customers wanting to use updated nitro ammo?

Nice example of an english sporting arm. You got a good deal although finding original replacement parts will be the fun part. I looked in my parts bins, but nothing useable cos you require a LH lock
 
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englishman_ca said:
All arms had to be proofed for sale on the commercial market in England. Why would it be proofed a second time? Perhaps the gun was reproofed for nitro to enhance its sale potential to customers wanting to use updated nitro ammo?
Click to expand...

I think it was reproofed in part for nitro and in part because the chamber was lengthened. Note the diamond C indicates a standard chamber and the reproof is a diamond C plus LC for long chamber

cheers mooncoon
 
Crown over NP = Difinitive nitro proof for all guns since 1904.
Crossed swords with W above, V below = another Bermingham view mark.
Crown over BV = Birmingham view mark used since 1904.
Crown over BP = Black powder proof only for parabellum pistols since 1904 (doesnt make sense). Seems to me that this was used for something else as well but I cant find the reference at the moment.
Crown with sylizes BP below (and C stamped above) is the provisional proof for barrels since 1856.
12 over C in diamond is nominal gauge desgnation applied to shotguns given in black powder proof.
As everyone has mentioned above...the 12 over LC in diamone has been stamped over the original 12 over C. This gun has obviously been re-proofed...and for nitro as well.
The CHOKE marking has obviously been re-stamped. There should be a set of numbers or a fraction shown for the choke dimensions but I dont see them.
The 1 1/2 may be the chamber length - although this is usually in milimeters for english/belgian proofed guns.
 
sportee said:
The 1 1/2 may be the chamber length - although this is usually in milimeters for english/belgian proofed guns.
Click to expand...

I don't think there has ever been a 12 guage 1 1/2" shell and shot charge is the only thing that would make sense of the 1 1/2 stamp. Shortest 12 guage shell as far as I know is 2"

cheers mooncoon
 
Nice old gun and a good deal too.
Hope it doesn't turn out like some of my good deals. I end up spending a fortune on the good deal gun to put it right again. Still a lot of fun though as long as you don't end up divorced.
 
mooncoon said:
I don't think there has ever been a 12 guage 1 1/2" shell and shot charge is the only thing that would make sense of the 1 1/2 stamp. Shortest 12 guage shell as far as I know is 2"

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wasnt sure of that one. Its not something in my notes.
 
Does 1½ drams equivalent sound right? Don't have my copy of Wirnsberger to hand.
13
─ is the nominal bore size and corresponds to .719"
1
 
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