Help. Wrong powder or bullets????

blacksmithden

blacksmithden

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
25   0   0
Location
I live among the creatures of the night (Edmonton)
Ok. I'll present the facts in point form, or we'll be here all night.
I bought the Modern Reloading Second Edition by Lee and read it.
By a fluke in schedualing, I had a chance to drop by a local supplier here in Edmonton.
I wanted the Lee 1000 pro with the 44 mag dies.
Yep, got one in stock in the Calgary store.
Good. How long to get it here...a few days, a week????
Oh, it'll probably be a few weeks.
A few weeks???? It's a 4 hour drive from here. I can have stuff mailed from Nfld faster than that. Fine. I'll look after getting it from the Calgary store myself.
I guess, since I'm here, I had better pick up some supplies for when I get the press.
Are you a reloader???
Yep.
44 magnum????
Yep.
What powder do you recommend???
He comes out with WIN296. Use this, it's great, highly recommended....blah blah blah.
Fine. Give me a pound of it.

Got some primers?
Yep. Here's some Federals.
I point out that in the manual, Lee all but forbids you to use that brand in the 1000 press. (I haven't got the book with me, but I do remember this). They recommend CCI.
Nope, no stock. We've got Winchesters. I didn't remember anything about Winchesters, so ok, fine.

Got some plain old lead bullets, 240 grain. Yep, 30+ bucks for 100.
My grey cells remember $22 / hundred for some reason. This sounds a little steep for me. Never mind. I'll get them somewhere else.

I go home, and finally manage to get through to the mail order desk after about 9 tries, with 5 minutes to spare before they close for the day.
I order the press, and 500 Speer, SWC...plain old lead. 58.99 a box. Whew, got the order in, and at least I know it's on the way.
I then start looking for the load data in the book.
Well, it's not in the book.
Ok. I go to the Winchester (Hogdon) website. Hummm 44 mag non jacketed, plain old lead 240 grain isn't listed for WIN 296 powder. By looking over the load chart, I'm seeing that plain old unjacketed lead bullets need to be fired at a fair bit lower speed and pressure. The powered listed is 231 and the power charge miniscule compared to 296 using jacketed bullets.

So far, it's looking to me that the guy behind the counter heard 44 magnum, and firing pure lead went in one ear and out the other, and sold me the wrong power for my application.

My first question is.......after all that, a drum roll please......has anyone ever used WIN296 powder with plain old 240 grain unjacketed lead bullets? If so, what is a reasonable starting charge???? I'm guessing I'm going to be told that for the first 500 shots, I'm going to need WIN231 until all my unjacketed lead is gone.
My second question is, is this a typical experience looking for/trying to buy reloading stuff???? No stock no stock no stock???? It'll take weeks, or we don't have it and don't know when/if we'll be getting more. We know you didn't come for this, but try it anyway, it's this or nothing.

GETTING A HEADACHE!!!!!! FACTORY AMMO IS LOOKING PRETTY DAMNED GOOD RIGHT NOW!!!
HELP!!!!!!!
 
Last edited:
Well persevere. Reloading is worth it, fun, and gets less confusing. Yes, you are going to have to hang onto that pound of 296, don't try and reduce the loads with this powder, it has a reputation for doing really funny stuff with reduced loads. Get a pound or two of slower powder to use those lead bullets with. THen load away. THe frustration level will drop drastically once you work up a nice tailored load that shoots well in YOUR gun.
 
Thanks scairns. Well, the one good thing about this experience is that I'm at least picking up on the information and was able to draw the correct conclusion on my own :)

I enjoy solving mechanical problems more than chemical ones, so I won't be doing much experimenting with different loads. At least not yet. I'll just stick to the load charts. If it's not on there, I won't be trying it. I'll be happier trying to tweak out the press :)

Thanks again.
 
Last edited:
scairns said:
Well persevere. Reloading is worth it, fun, and gets less confusing. Yes, you are going to have to hang onto that pound of 296, don't try and reduce the loads with this powder, it has a reputation for doing really funny stuff with reduced loads. Get a pound or two of FASTER powder to use those lead bullets with. THen load away. THe frustration level will drop drastically once you work up a nice tailored load that shoots well in YOUR gun.
Click to expand...


Accuracy is important when giving out advice on reloading....;)
 
It's been my experience on two occasions at two of the big stores in calgary that it is their company policy to NOT give advise on reloading due to liability reasons. Sounds fair enough to me, if I have doubts, I'll either check the books, the many website that provide load data or just simply check here. I have also experienced many frustrating "out of stock" replies with powder aand other components in the last while. But, thankfully I have come to learn of many small dealers and smaller stores that are always happy to help you find what you need if they don't stock it. Every single reloading component for my new .375 H&H has come from such places.
 
Relax....stop...take a deep breath, the powder doesn't match up with the bullets, get some hard cast, gas check bullets for heavy loads in the .44, save the soft bullets for some reduced loads. After a box of full power loads you will enjoy something lighter, buy some powder that matches up with the soft bullets ie:231,trail boss,tight group,etc....it's all good...live and learn.....hard cast bullets avail. in all types/shapes/weights/sizes from MT Chambers' Supply.
 
i don't know where the pricing on the bullets comes from last time i was at russels 59-60 /1000- it's the big bucket- i use 231 for all my loads ( about 8 grains- i like a little less than "magnum" velocities"- save your 296 for your full-house jacketed-as far as your lee 1000 goes, there's been more than a few threads in here on that- you also might want to get a single stage to accomodate a FACTORY CRIMP DIE- that thing is a bloody wonder when it comes to revolvers
 
Oh well, just get some jacketed bullets and make some full-house loads. I can mail you 20 or so 240 grain JHP's to get you started (PM me details)

No problem either way, you're just building-up supplies. Get them while they are in stock. 296 is a good powder to use with the Lee powder measure and Jacketed bullets - be careful and do not use a "flake-type" powder (i.e.: unique) with that press.
 
296 is for max loads, it doesn't do so well with the lighter loads required for plain soft lead... 231 or most other fast pistol powders are more suitable for light loads.

Oh, and 296 == H110 (in every loading manual I have, the 286 and 110 loads are either identical or only a few tenths difference)
 
Thanks for the offer onebarfly, but I'll just grab some jacketed stuff on my next trip to Calgary.

T-star, I got the stuff from Wholesale Sports. Thanks for mentioning that Russels has them for half the price. I'll have to make a shopping trip to Cowtown one of these weekends and go to Russels. Perhaps call in a big order once I've got my feet wet. It's always nice to walk right into anyplace, walk up to the counter and have everything you wanted already and waiting for you. That way, with a couple of weeks notice, they can hopefully get in stuff that they were out of stock on.

I'm kind of looking forward to some reduced velocity loads for the 44. Blasting away and making a really big bang and lots of fire is pretty cool for about 50 rounds or so, but then my hands start getting a wee bit sore and I wouldn't mind something a little lighter.

Thanks for ALL the advice guys. It is greatly appreciated. I'll be back for more no doubt :)
Hopefully after a few months of messing around, I'll be able to hand out some.
Dennis......
 
i would phone and see if russels has the lead bullets in stock FIRST= there ARE times they run dry-also the price of LEAD has gone up considerably and might be priced differently - that guy out at black diamond is pricing at 74/k- i just checked, but he does discount on bulk-the stuff from russels is made in sask, i think- gull lake
 
Keep in mind the Speer stuff is not hard cast and according to their own tech's are not suitable for velocities over 1000fps(unless u hang a gas check on them). The stuff at Russells is in fact hard cast and can easily run 1300fps without problem. I talked to the owner(Plains Bullets) and he said they are suitable up to 1600fps but I think thats a bit of a stretch to say the least and you wont get anywhere near that with your 44mag. Indeed Russells has held the line on the pricing from last year which is amazing, and when I was there last week they still had a reasonable supply on hand. TSE has a good supply of the Montana Gold 240 JSP and JHP( in 1000 and maybe 500pk) if u want to have some jktd to play with for the 296. W231 or Titegroup is also dandy for the lead and Titegroup is less expensive. Russells also had some last time but it is extremely popular and may be hard to find.
Take care
dB:)
 
Last edited:
I just stopped by Wholesale on my way back from a call and picked up a hundred jacketed semi wadcutters and a pound of WIN231. Now I can play with lead and jacketed. I think I'll figure out a couple of loads that I like, and I'll order a batch of stuff from Russels. Might as well get bulk pricing if I can, right?? :D
Thanks again guys.
Dennis.....
 
you have to remember that a bucket of 44 lead slugs weighs like 38- 40 pounds-i don't know what that would cost to ship - there's roughly 1 k per bucket as far as the 231 goes, i started of with 7 grains, now at 8, and the top end is 11
 
Oh God, I wouldn't have lead anything shipped. What I'll do is play with what I have for now...(and learn). Then I'll save up for a big order, call it in a week or two before going down to Calgary. That'll give them a chance to get everything together. We haven't taken a trip up though the icefields yet, so we could stay in Calgary overnight, and drive up through Banff and Jasper the next day. Well, I shouldn't say haven't yet......we started out for a drive one Saturday in February. Wound up saying in Calgary overnight, then went over through Canmore, Banff, Lake Louise, etc. Got about 1/2 an hour up the Icefields Parkway and got into some pretty nasty snow. Continued up to Hwy 11 and decided to get the heck out of the mountains. The good ol' minivan hasn't let us down yet, but it sure isn't my F350 Superduty 4X4 service truck either :D Had dinner in Rocky Mountain House, and carried on back to Edmonton. Just a "little" drive :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom