Lets hear from some of the match directors and CRO's would you bump a guy into open for shooting a G22 with the only mod being a barrel out of a G17 put in it against a Standard/Limited gun with a double action first shot and no magwell?
HI anyone here know what/how a barrel conversion will
- Thread starter jester1
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If you can find a good machinist they can change the 22 on the slide to a 17 and make the barrel look stock
This reminds me of something Eric teaches in his class, its easier to ask for forgiveness then to ask for permission. Had you removed the lonewolf logo and blued the barrel and never said anything, I doubt anywould have ever caught on, kind of like how some people use minor ammo at level 1's and 2's but claim it to be major
This reminds me of something Eric teaches in his class, its easier to ask for forgiveness then to ask for permission. Had you removed the lonewolf logo and blued the barrel and never said anything, I doubt anywould have ever caught on, kind of like how some people use minor ammo at level 1's and 2's but claim it to be major
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Sure, let's hear...who would???
cc NROI with your resignation while you're at it...The rules are quite clear about this.
Either we play by the rules or we go play another game.
(FYI - Sight tracker and STI - SVI example - quantity rules in limited are USPSA rules - not IPSC in standard - there was never a problem from day 1 with sight tracker on any gun so long as it fit in the box...) Dicking around with the rules there was a American problem, and irrelevant here.
Sure, let's hear...who would???
The rules are quite clear about this.
Either we play by the rules or we go play another game.
(FYI - Sight tracker and STI - SVI example - quantity rules in limited are USPSA rules - not IPSC in standard - there was never a problem from day 1 with sight tracker on any gun so long as it fit in the box...) Dicking around with the rules there was a American problem, and irrelevant here.
oops I thought Standard had a no prototype clause, but I was mistaken.
Resignation?? this is viewed as that massive of a faux pas, in a divison were the majority of peoples guns don't look like or function like they did when they were new. I would let the guy shoot a match I was running, Id side with the shooter in an arbitration on the matter as well.
Jester, you could shoot your 9mm G22 in Standard for minor scoring if the budget only has room for 9mm ammo costs, other wise, NO IPSC FOR YOU, NEXT! too bad we can't get some sort of exemption to a rule in order to save our competeitors hassels or added costs of having 2 sets of magazines or not having to sell off bullets that are too light. I guess come on back when you can afford .40 ammo or get a new gun.
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I don't see what the big deal is .
He only gets bumped to open IF he claims to be in production .
If he registers as standard / minor he's good to go .
For a new shooter will it really make a difference ??
I don't think so .
What I do think is all shooters would want the rules applied equally to all competitors , otherwise what exactly is the point ?
He only gets bumped to open IF he claims to be in production .
If he registers as standard / minor he's good to go .
For a new shooter will it really make a difference ??
I don't think so .
What I do think is all shooters would want the rules applied equally to all competitors , otherwise what exactly is the point ?
Thanks for atleast siding with me. Someone was on the same page. Maybe Ill come back when the rules change if I still have a gun. Seems the same people who make up these rules are the same people who make up the gun laws since the logic is the same.
If Im not allowed to touch the barrel because it changes the specs of the gun then no one should be allowed to perform any mods whatsoever including non slip tape. It didnt come with it, and surely wasnt an option then it should not be allowed.
What does "minor scoring" mean by the way.
IPSC is scored with two power levels - major and minor .
In standard division major is 170 , minor 125 .
To arive at this number you take your bullet weight and multiply it by your velocity then divide by 1000 .
In production division there is no major power factor - only minor .
Your points on the target are only lower with minor power factor if you shoot "C" and "D" hits , "A" hits score the same .
I hope this helps you understand the scoring .
But keep in mind if you are going to shoot IPSC you are going to chew up a lot of ammo . I cannot see buying factory ammo in this sport , the cost would be huge . Reloading not only saves you money but you can now taylor your ammo to the game . 147 grain 9mm factory ammo is about 150 power factor , 40S&W even more but if you reload a 135 power factor is easy to attain and the guns are way softer to shoot . The cost difference between 9 and 40 when reloading to this power level are minimal .
Just my two cents .
In standard division major is 170 , minor 125 .
To arive at this number you take your bullet weight and multiply it by your velocity then divide by 1000 .
In production division there is no major power factor - only minor .
Your points on the target are only lower with minor power factor if you shoot "C" and "D" hits , "A" hits score the same .
I hope this helps you understand the scoring .
But keep in mind if you are going to shoot IPSC you are going to chew up a lot of ammo . I cannot see buying factory ammo in this sport , the cost would be huge . Reloading not only saves you money but you can now taylor your ammo to the game . 147 grain 9mm factory ammo is about 150 power factor , 40S&W even more but if you reload a 135 power factor is easy to attain and the guns are way softer to shoot . The cost difference between 9 and 40 when reloading to this power level are minimal .
Just my two cents .
but at what point do you stop? how about a barrel with an expansion chamber on the end of it? or maybe an extended ported barrel? or maybe that new ultra secret barrel with alternating twist groves on it to limit torque?
of course the way production is going the rules will soon be no optics double action first shot.
of course the way production is going the rules will soon be no optics double action first shot.
If you can find a good machinist they can change the 22 on the slide to a 17 and make the barrel look stock
you can also go from being bumped to Open, to being DQ'd for unsportsman like conduct (deliberate cheating).. I'd gladly stand up to an appeal board and justify DQ'ing a shooter for trying this..
I will never understand why everyone gets so twisted up about this. Anyone with a Glock 22 with an aftermarket 9mm barrel is welcome to shoot in IPSC. They just can't shoot it in Production Division. They can have just as much fun shooting it in Standard.
You decide which gun you want to bring with you, and then you figure out which division it best fits into, and then you have lots of fun.
Where is the problem with this?
You decide which gun you want to bring with you, and then you figure out which division it best fits into, and then you have lots of fun.
Where is the problem with this?
As Hugh Dillon once said in a song, "everything's legal as long as you don't get caught" if you actually think there aren't people skirting the rules in production on a regular basis then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. There's always someone trying to find a way to get an edge without putting in any range work
if you actually think there aren't people skirting the rules in production on a regular basis then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. There's always someone trying to find a way to get an edge without putting in any range work
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Legality and innocence are not the same as not getting caught and Hugh Dillon is an immoral ass. That we have a society in which there are people who agree with the sentiment in his song is unfortunate. Breaking rules is not something to be proud of, particularly in this case. We are not talking about some unjust law that is an affront to fundamental rights. We are talking about rules for a sport.
I don't personally know anyone who is intentionally cheating the production division rules. It would be sad to be so committed to winning a game that one would disrespect their fellow competitors in that way.
I don't personally know anyone who is intentionally cheating the production division rules. It would be sad to be so committed to winning a game that one would disrespect their fellow competitors in that way.
I don't think anyone ever said there was a problem shooting it in standard..
The problem is that certian people are encouraging the person to cheat, and tell him to try and hide that fact that he should not be shooting in production.
Madness said:
(Well at least I'll call a spade, a spade.. confrontational or not, I'll say what needs to be said) BULL s**t
your encouraging the guy to cheat. rather then offer advice like "hey why don't you download the .40 rounds to a 125 PF, and they are as good as 9mm", you are telling the guy to flat out cheat.. I'm sorry but this is not a case of gaming or trying to use the rules to your advantage.. you are telling him to break them, and how to try and hide it from everyone else (and in the process rip them off as well, as they expect a fair competition)
bit of an A.D. there, Read carefully, I'm encouraging swaping out a barrel in order to save the cost of a new gun ,NOT in order to gain an ADVANTAGE over the feild. Downloaded 40 still costs more then factoy 9mm then there is the labour time to factor in aswell, not eveyone has a press or the funds to go buy one. Hell someone could buy a 9mm top end and put it on a 40 frame and who would ever know? what advantage was gained? Now if someone swaped a top end of a stock 40 on to a frame with griptape, extened controls, and a trigger job there was an advantage gained, but who would ever know? you would actually feel ripped off if you finished higher then someone who shot 9mm out of a G22?, its just a game, a real fun way to turn money into noise.
You are trying to split hairs over the reason for cheating, but you've totally missed the point that you are still cheating..
it's still clear that you are not offering any constructive advice (like shoot standard, or reload .40's). etc
if competitive advantage was truly not an issue then you would have said "just shoot standard until you fingure out what you want to do long term".. instead you promoted cheating, and make unfounded accusation that "it's ok, everyone else in PD does it" (My words, not yours, but that's the message you are sending)
Again, you've even lost yourself with the incorrect logic you are trying to use.. a G22 is .40 not 9mm he would be using a .40 in standard (thats a major caliber vs other major calibers).
you can't justify cheating for saving a few $$$. using your own logic, you would then be telling him that by shooting a 110 PF in production that he could save $$$ on powder costs, and it would not give him an advantage.
