Hi Power vs 1911

Hi-Power or 1911

I have an Inglis and a Springfield Armory GI, and love them both. I'm just a plinker and the military sights work fine for me, and I also enjoy the link with history. I'll never part with either one, and if I win the lotto I'll add a Wilson Combat CQB and a Sig P210.
 
capp325 said:
A double-stack "1911" is not a true 1911, as it loses one of the gun's main selling points – superior grip comfort. A double stack 1911 is far thicker than the BHP(which is pretty close to the single stack 1911).
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I have to say that that is a ludicrous statement.

firstly, doublestack 1911's are almost always made using thinner grip panels than usual,

also, the 1911 single stack design has an extremely thin grip. too thin for most hands.
making it slightly larger does nothing detrimental to the grip shape.
in the case of most hand sizes it improves the grip.
 
IM_Lugger said:
meah it's not that comfortable :p I think doblestack might even fit my mediium sized hands better...

that's because comander/compact 1911 was designed for CCW - no point in getting a compact gun as a sidearm.
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We are talking about pre-polymer days here. Compact gun = less weight. So yes, there was a point in adopting smaller sidearms. The precursor of the BHP, as designed by Browning himself, was a much bigger/heavier gun then the final version. After JMB's death, FN engineers downsized the gun at the request of the French military (for which the gun was designed in the first place).
 
BBq_Woa! said:
also, the 1911 single stack design has an extremely thin grip. too thin for most hands.
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Now that is a ludicrous statement. I have above average size hands and the single stack 1911 fits me just fine (and better than the doublestack). Maybe you're just used to table leg grips of guns like Beretta 92 and Para Ord. A thinner grip allows you to get better grasp of the gun with your supporting hand, which is critical for accurate shooting.
 
A thinner grip allows you to get better grasp of the gun with your supporting hand, which is critical for accurate shooting
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I don't see how, supporting hand goes around your dominant hand which makes the 'grip' a LOT bigger for the other hand. As long as the gun fits your dominant/shooting hand; everything else is irrelevant.

Talking about 'superior grip comfort' 'table lag' Beretta to me is more ergonomic than most single stack 1911's I've shot; I can't reach slide release on a 1911 without shifting my hand a bit, but don't have that problem with a 92... With that said I'm seriously considering 10mm 1911 for my next gun, so will have to play with different grips/MSH to get it to fit me right.
 
Sorry, that's my bad...should be three auto pistols that one must own. I've read it a few times on here and elsewhere...I believe the third was a glock or a sig...curses, gonna have to browse for it now!

Aside from the first shot, what is the value of DA vs SA in pistols? If it recocks the hammer after each shot anyways...? Sorry, as you can tell, new to the whole handgun thing :p
 
Dukeoflawnchair said:
Aside from the first shot, what is the value of DA vs SA in pistols? If it recocks the hammer after each shot anyways...? Sorry, as you can tell, new to the whole handgun thing :p
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After the first shot there is no difference. The only logical reason to prefer DA is if of you compete in IPSC or some other discipline that does not allow SAO guns or puts them in a separate category (which is always dominated by the 1911 due to its superior trigger design).
 
With a DA/SA guns you also have a restrike capability (no need to #### the hammer or partially rack the slide to reset the striker (DAO guns)) you can just pull the trigger again. That is the main difference.
 
The 1911 with it's trigger has to be one of the most accurate pistols I have and easy to shoot well. I was'nt a big fan of them, but they grow on you, I like the commander length.
 
I carried a BHP back in 1978 in Cyprus. Never got used to the little safety. Always oiled it and kept it in the 1964 pattern holster on my web belt. It felt great there.

Super combat boomstick, but for target work and punching paper , the 1911's trigger just cannot be beat. So my BHP sits in the safe.

So, don't argue which is better, just buy BOTH !! :evil:
 
I shoot the BHP simply because it is what I know. With the mag safety removed the trigger can be made to be very smooth if you know an experienced gunplumber.

I own a FN manufacture contract HP made for the argentinian military that has been worked over slightly (very minor). I'd put it up against any rack 1911 pistol anyday. The advantage is that I didn't need all of the 1911 upgrades and match parts to be satisfied with my BHP.

I regularly compete against 1911's using my BHP and I hold my own. It has never failed me and I paid a a fraction of the cost of my fellow shooters. Now all I need to do is get more practice in because my shooting skills ain't that good!!!!! Its me not the pistol.

Additionally I have fairly small hands and I find the HP grip more comfortable than the long and slender 1911 grip. Simply because my short thumb can't reach the 1911 mag release easily - where-as I fing the BHP mag release to be within easy reach. I also have adapted a pachmayr slide release extension ($20) so all of the controls are within close proximity to one another.

Additionally I can field strip a HP35 with my eyes closed. Certainly easier than a 1911. I love both pistols though but prefer the BHP. Call me a sucker but I love them. Plus I get a certain satisfaction as being the only guy on the range competing successfully with a BHP. Heck I see people competing with Norinco Plinko 1911's that require minor tuning rather successfully so why not a BHP eh!

Hungry is right about the safety issue. Again my BHP came with the ambi-safety so no issue there. BHP after market parts are cheap anyway and the pistol came to me like this anyways.
hp1.jpg

hp2.jpg

hp3.jpg

GP35-ex.gif
 
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Greenhorse six said:
Heard something about the F.B.I. hostage rescue team were using the Hi-Power,But now have gone over to using a 1911,the Hi-Power couldn't take the # of rds they were putting though them,parts were wareing out or breaking,not sure about the kind of ammo they use,may have been kind of hot.
Thinking the 1911 is the tougher one,IMHO.
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FBI HRT carried the Hi-Power when a pistol was the go to gun, then decided they wanted to go to a .45acp. That process turned out ot be a horror story for them and they will attest to that to this day. When they had the Hi-Power, Wayne Novak was the technical advisor for them, the king of Hi-Powers as far as I am concerned, he still does it to a certain capacity. They have now gone to the Springfield Operator model, but a long the way a lot of the HRT operators just asked for thier old Hi-Powers back.

Personally I love the Hi-Power, but also the 1911. Go with Hungry's opinion, buy both.
 
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More thoughts, I agree with the comments that the trigger on the 1911 will always beat the browning hp.

There are websites on removing the magazine safety to improve the browning trigger. For example:

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/Hptriggerjob.htm

There was a better reference with photos but I can't find where I saved it.

Long story short, a more mechanically inclined friend helped me take out the part to do the disconnect, and damn, the trigger action did improve, which was the project focus, rather than the ability to fire the round in the chamber with the magazine removed.

Caution, don't do the disassembly unless in safe conditions where you don't drop a part and hunt around the garage floor. lol

I concur about the stupid safety on the old models. had to buy the after market extended safety (why can't they get the finish on the part to match the normal blueing from factory?) as the early safety design just sucked.

My high powers never jammed or stovepiped. An early Colt series 70 was predictable in that regard, likely due to the years of labour unrest and bad management and quality control.

Big difference in price as to extra 1911 mags to hp mags.

Good 1911 mags are between $15 to $25. Quality HP mags are from $35 to $45 each.

Another difference is the magazine eject/ drop free mag issue.

1911's have no problems. The new "rat trap" browning mags solved that problem by now, with a hard kick out.

However, I found with older non rat trap mags, mag eject would go about half inch or one inch out, then you must use free hand to pull it out.

I spent too much time polishing and oiling the mag surfaces, and the interior of the HP frame, to get the mags to drop free, but no success.

I narrowed the problem to the backstrap where the flexible spring was so far out that it put too much tension against the mag to let it drop free.

Embarrass to say, but I finally found a fix for myself by using part of a paper clip, bent as needed, insert into the problem area, made sure it won't loosen out with recoil, and kept that tension flat spring back. All my mags eject and drop free now. (caveat - don't try this at home)

Also caliber, the 1911 in .45 feels move like a push shove back in the recoil..The HP in 9mm is more like a kick, even though it's suppose to have less felt recoil. Every shooter has his or her expericence, so do test fires if you can before you buy.

In summary, if you use the HP for competition, it can be perfect, but as with the 1911, a few aftermarket parts and careful homesmithing, can also make it your ideal piece.

I welcome the members' thoughts and experiences as feedback. Regards.
 
1911, 1911, 1911...

There, you have my preference (no surprise to most of you, I suppose :)

The 1911 design is inherently way stronger than the HP. The Hi-Powers will, with enough hard use, break the cross-pin in the frame, and although I have made these and replaced them, currently you either get a new frame or ship off the frame to Cylinder & Slide in the US. A problem these days.

You can make the HP grip area feel pretty good (like a CZ, almost) but those factory squared off grips don't feel good to me :) Transferring the trigger pull up through the slide and then back down to the frame was a crappy idea. How many guns today use that system? I like the lack of a grip safety. Some things were simplified over the 1911 design, and some were made way too complicated.

I'm glad the CZ guys copied only a few of the HP feastures when they designed the CZ75. The other one they copied was the SIG P210 - now there's a gun I do sincerely admire.

My two cents' worth :)

Gunnar
 
i agree with hungary, buy both. i have a nork tuned by gunnar (2 actually), they are beautiful, however the FN browning i have is also beautiful. so get both, they are like food, everything has its place and time.
 
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