High Cap enfield mags

Apologies for the size, mods please help!

Ok apologies to IS but here is the page
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thanks for indulging me. That is one cool lookin mag! of course, now i want one...

Smellie, any chance of seeing a pic of your 25 rounder mauser?
 
stencollector said:
A mag for a #4 doesn't work in a #1mk3, so unless there is a recognised conversion of #4s to semi-auto/full auto, a modern made mag for a #4 wouldn't need to be exempt; it already is.

I have seen M-14 full capacity mags in use on an Enfield .308. The guy who did the modification welded a stop on the mag housing so it won't fit into a M14.

Sometimes I think we are our own worst enemies. Bolt actions are exempt from mag capacity; there are no semi-auto Enfields in Canada, and yet we are debating about the possibility of prosecution for an above 10 round magazine.
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Stencollector,
Here's the relevant CC passage. Bolt actions are not exempted if the magazine used was designed or manufactured for use in a semi or full auto (ie Bren). Just like a Remington 7615P, using AR-15 mags, is still limited to 5 rounds in the mag.
An full capacity M14 mag in a No4 does not appear to be a legal option. If the modifiction to prevent its use in a M14 is acceptable, then I hope the shooter got something in writing from his CFO, that he'd share with us here.

The CC doesn't differentiate between No4's and No1's, .303 or 7.62, they're all "Lee Enfields."



Former Cartridge Magazine Control Regulations


3. (1) Any cartridge magazine

(a) that is capable of containing more than five cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in

(i) a semi-automatic handgun that is not commonly available in Canada,

(ii) a semi-automatic firearm other than a semi-automatic handgun,

(iii) an automatic firearm whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger,

(iv) the firearms of the designs commonly known as the Ingram M10 and M11 pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them, including the Cobray M10 and M11 pistols, the RPB M10, M11 and SM11 pistols and the SWD M10, M11, SM10 and SM11 pistols,

(v) the firearm of the design commonly known as the Partisan Avenger Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, or

(vi) the firearm of the design commonly known as the UZI pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Micro-UZI pistol; or

(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.


(2) Paragraph (1)(a) does not include any cartridge magazine that

(a) was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that

(i) is chambered for, or designed to use, rimfire cartridges,

(ii) is a rifle of the type commonly known as the "Lee Enfield" rifle, where the magazine is capable of containing not more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed, or

(iii) is commonly known as the U.S. Rifle M1 (Garand) including the Beretta M1 Garand rifle, the Breda M1 Garand rifle and the Springfield Armoury M1 Garand rifle;

(b) is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that

(i) is commonly known as the Charlton Rifle,

(ii) is commonly known as the Farquhar-Hill Rifle, or

(iii) is commonly known as the Huot Automatic Rifle;

(c) is of the "drum" type, is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm commonly known as

(i) the .303 in. Lewis Mark 1 machine-gun, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Lewis Mark 1*, Mark 2, Mark 2*, Mark 3, Mark 4, Lewis SS and .30 in. Savage-Lewis,

(ii) the .303 in. Vickers Mark 1 machine-gun, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Mark 1*, Mark 2, Mark 2*, Mark 3, Mark 4, Mark 4B, Mark 5, Mark 6, Mark 6* and Mark 7, or

(iii) the Bren Light machine-gun, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Mark 1, Mark 2, Mark 2/1, Mark 3 and Mark 4;

(d) is of the "metallic-strip" type, is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in conjunction with the firearm known as the Hotchkiss machine-gun, Model 1895 or Model 1897, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Hotchkiss machine-gun, Model 1900, Model 1909, Model 1914 and Model 1917, and the Hotchkiss machine-gun (Enfield), Number 2, Mark 1 and Mark 1*;

(e) is of the "saddle-drum" type (doppeltrommel or satteltrommel), is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in the automatic firearms known as the MG-13, MG-15, MG-17, MG-34, T6-200 or T6-220, or any variant or modified version of it; or

(f) is of the "belt" type consisting of a fabric or metal belt, is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for the purpose of feeding cartridges into a automatic firearm of a type that was in existence before 1945.


(3) Paragraph (1)(b) does not include any cartridge magazine that

(a) is of the "snail-drum" type (schneckentrommel) that was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that is a handgun known as the Parabellum-Pistol, System Borchardt-Luger, Model 1900, or "Luger", or any variant or modified version of it, including the Model 1902, Model 1904 (Marine), Model 1904/06 (Marine), Model 1904/08 (Marine), Model 1906, Model 1908 and Model 1908 (Artillery) pistols;

(b) was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that is a semi-automatic handgun, where the magazine was manufactured before 1910;

(c) was originally designed or manufactured as an integral part of the firearm known as the Mauser Selbstladepistole C/96 ("broomhandle"), or any variant or modified version of it, including the Model 1895, Model 1896, Model 1902, Model 1905, Model 1912, Model 1915, Model 1930, Model 1931, M711 and M712; or

(d) was originally designed or manufactured for use in the semi-automatic firearm that is a handgun known as the Webley and Scott Self-Loading Pistol, Model 1912 or Model 1915.
 
Stevo:
So was there a semi-auto/full auto version of the #4? If not, the exclusion to the mag capacity, along with the restriction, won't apply because the #4 mag is already exempt from any of the restrictions. Where does it say a center fire bolt action rifle has a mag restriction?
The exclusion in 2(II) might apply to a version of the Enfield where there was a self loading variant, but I don't think any court in the land could extend that to a bolt action rifle with no semi auto equivelent.
 
Stevo said:
[
An full capacity M14 mag in a No4 does not appear to be a legal option. If the modifiction to prevent its use in a M14 is acceptable, then I hope the shooter got something in writing from his CFO, that he'd share with us here.

The CC doesn't differentiate between No4's and No1's, .303 or 7.62, they're all "Lee Enfields."



Former Cartridge Magazine Control Regulations

snip


(2) Paragraph (1)(a) does not include any cartridge magazine that

(a) was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that

(i) is chambered for, or designed to use, rimfire cartridges,

(ii) is a rifle of the type commonly known as the "Lee Enfield" rifle, where the magazine is capable of containing not more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed, or

(iii) is commonly known as the U.S. Rifle M1 (Garand) including the Beretta M1 Garand rifle, the Breda M1 Garand rifle and the Springfield Armoury M1 Garand rifle;

(b) is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that

(i) is commonly known as the Charlton Rifle,

(ii) is commonly known as the Farquhar-Hill Rifle, or

(iii) is commonly known as the Huot Automatic Rifle;


snip
(.
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Actually gentlemen, if you read the regulation, the F/A LE based rifles are mentioned as being excluded from the regulations, so it's kind of a moot point!
 
stencollector said:
Stevo:
So was there a semi-auto/full auto version of the #4? If not, the exclusion to the mag capacity, along with the restriction, won't apply because the #4 mag is already exempt from any of the restrictions. Where does it say a center fire bolt action rifle has a mag restriction?
The exclusion in 2(II) might apply to a version of the Enfield where there was a self loading variant, but I don't think any court in the land could extend that to a bolt action rifle with no semi auto equivelent.
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Stencollector,
You're missing the point again. The rifle is not the pertinent part. The MAGAZINE is what is restricted. If a M14 mag is used it's still a M14 mag, even if it fits in a LE.

Edited***
In discussion with other mods here's what I've gathered. If you mod a Bren mag to fit ONLY in a LE, then the mag restriction need not apply. Same for a M14 mag in a 7.62 No4. Note, the mags need to be modded so as to preclude use in the semi/full auto firearm that they were designed for.

*DISCLAIMER* Neither I or CGN assumes any responsibility for this information, as the law may be widely interpreted in different ways at the whim of the various CFO's. It would be best to get something in writing from your CFO before proceeding with a project like this.
 
This is from the regulation regarding the Enfield.

(ii) is a rifle of the type commonly known as the "Lee Enfield" rifle, where the magazine is capable of containing not more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed,
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So that's it - 10 rds ONLY.

RePete.
 
Stevo
Your right, I did miss your point. I thought we were talking about a newly manufactured magazine for a number 4. My point was (and hopefully I don't have to start arguing with Repete on this) that the exemption:
(Paragraph (1)(a) does not include any cartridge magazine that
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) of 10 round enfield magazines:
(ii) is a rifle of the type commonly known as the "Lee Enfield" rifle, where the magazine is capable of containing not more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed,
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which would apply to 10 round magazines only, would be magazines that could be used on a self loading version of the Enfield. The only magazines which go onto self loading Enfields are no1mk3 mags. The exemption makes the 10 rounders legal, even though they can be used on a semi auto rifle. It does not make the 20 round magazines legal and they would likely have to be pinned to 5.

But my point is that a #4 or #5 magazine fits no semi auto gun, and therefore the magazine capacity exemption previously quoted, wouldn't apply to a #4 mag because it didn't meet the criteria to being restricted in capacity in the first place.

So that's it - 10 rds ONLY.
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You are correct if your talking about a magazine that could fit into a semi auto rifle, like the #1mk3 semi auto conversions. But if we are talking about vitually any other Enfield magazine, then it didn't fit into a semi-auto rifle, and therefore doesn't have to be exempted from the regulations. The sentence:
(ii) is a rifle of the type commonly known as the "Lee Enfield" rifle, where the magazine is capable of containing not more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed,
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isn't a regulation; it's an exemption.
 
Ok guys you have some odd laws but here ours must be worse. I can buy as many magazines unaltered as I want. I bought a chest of bren mags for £15 a couple of years ago. we used to pre 1988 be able to shoot brens on shotgun certs provided they were fixed to semi auto and oval/smooth bore. The 88 act changed all that but many I suppose dissappeared as they werent registered just legally owned. The 97 act removed most post 1919 pistols from the scene and tightened up our definitions. To clarify a point a pistol is a pistol when it is a certain size. Long range hand cannons are just that and are still shot here albeit in limited numbers as a 303 or .5 BMG pistol requires a full rifle range not the old indoor 30 yard job. Having worked on these bren mags to attempt a conversion the alterations are so severe as to render them incapable of fitting into anything else. I tried welding the mag body onto a smelly mag where it clears the trigger guard but to be honest and having seen the work involved in getting a reliable feed, you are better off starting afresh and using the metal sides as material only. The front face is too wide to fit or match up, the mag spring and follower are too different and the rear is way off on size. Those original trench mags were made exclusively for the No.1 Mk3 and if anything the Bren is a good copy/adaptation of the idea.
I saw 7.62 Bren/LMG L7 mags welded onto the bottom of a spas 15 mag to up the capacity to 15 rounds but 7.62 mags convert easily to 12 bore. I have seen one modded for a marlin goose gun project. He did a beautiful job. Those mags if you owned one would be worth more kept original and wrapped if possible than used. They were solely made for the Lee Enfield as the Bren did not exist and the semi autos never achieved full production status so a good lawyer could state they were legal provided you were rich enough to use one. I saw a 98K extended mag fitted to a 7.62 converted 98k and a spacer block at the back of the mag was enough to ensure reliable feed. Here I know of a Browning BLR that had an adapted ar type fitted to allow practical rifle shooting but it was welded/soldered into the detachable box and in a way was permanent. The shooter chose a lever as it disturbed his position less than a bolt gun in the rapid stages.
I hope no one I have reached thinks I am encouraging anyone to break the law, dont (ok stevo!).
 
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