Over the last couple of years I’ve noticed more and more expensive target shotguns on the used market, especially this year. I’m not referring to your Beretta 682 or Browning Citori, but used guns with asking prices of $4000, $6000, $10,000, and more. Top market guns typically used to change hands most often as private sales within a club as other shooters moved up or as a trade in on a more expensive model. Now I’m seeing more and more being advertised on CGN, GP, auctions and dealers and nobody seems to be buying. I know within my reach in interior BC, long running formal trap, skeet and sporting competitions are dwindling and competitor numbers in the remaining ones are sinking. Is this just waning interest in the shotgun sports or are we looking at the general erosion of Canadian buying power along with associated belt tightening?
High value target shotgun desirability
- Thread starter Ashcroft
- Start date
gunsaholic
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba
It is likely a combination of waning interest in the sport as a lot of the younger generation have no interest for various reasons. Also I think a lot of people are tightening their belts. I think a lot of guns through private sales are slow unless you are nearly giving them away.
Inflation and anti gun negativity in general would be my guesses.
I did a 3 gun match in BC in 2019 and there was upwards of 120 competitors, covid happened which killed that for two years and when the organizers tried to run it agin in 2022 they could only get under 30 competitors from memory. When I was informed it wouldn't be going ahead due to lack on interest the reason most had specified was extra cost (gas / ammo etc).
The second part of it I feel is the never ending government attack on gun owners. Many of those people who competed in 2019 probably used AR15s and King Turdhole subsequently banned them, lots of folks either cant afford another (for now) legal rifle option or simply dont want to take the chance with purchasing a replacement as the trend of banning is fairly plain to see.
One other factor that comes into play is fear of falling foul of being caught on the wrong side of the law due to the seemingly never ending rule changes. I know someone who ran a competition last year around the time that Trudeau rolled out his handgun "freeze". Now bear in mind this was an announcement of intent and nothing had happened / would happen for months but this was still enough for a bunch of nervous people to simply cancel out of fear of them being caught on the wrong side of the law (maybe due to a traffic stop or similar).
Yes, its stupid but thats where we are at folks.
I did a 3 gun match in BC in 2019 and there was upwards of 120 competitors, covid happened which killed that for two years and when the organizers tried to run it agin in 2022 they could only get under 30 competitors from memory. When I was informed it wouldn't be going ahead due to lack on interest the reason most had specified was extra cost (gas / ammo etc).
The second part of it I feel is the never ending government attack on gun owners. Many of those people who competed in 2019 probably used AR15s and King Turdhole subsequently banned them, lots of folks either cant afford another (for now) legal rifle option or simply dont want to take the chance with purchasing a replacement as the trend of banning is fairly plain to see.
One other factor that comes into play is fear of falling foul of being caught on the wrong side of the law due to the seemingly never ending rule changes. I know someone who ran a competition last year around the time that Trudeau rolled out his handgun "freeze". Now bear in mind this was an announcement of intent and nothing had happened / would happen for months but this was still enough for a bunch of nervous people to simply cancel out of fear of them being caught on the wrong side of the law (maybe due to a traffic stop or similar).
Yes, its stupid but thats where we are at folks.
I'd attribute some of the recent offerings to the high price and limited availability of target ammunition. Even reloaders are balking at primers costing $100.00 per thousand and unobtanium powder. The ever increasing cost to clubs for targets etc. means a round of skeet or trap here in Ottawa is about $20.00. Shotgunning was always expensive but it's getting ridiculous! A round of Sporting Clays within 1.5 hours of Ottawa is about $75.00 for 50 targets!! In our area we're seeing a lot of people with Turkish shotguns "to see if they like it or not" who then tend to upgrade when (if) they start shooting greater volumes of targets. Then they graduate to a B gun.
When we do see a higher (more expensive) grade gun for sale the owners want close to the asking price of a new one so they tend to go unsold unless they're something special (I won't spend 14K on a used Krieghoff when I can get a new one for $1500.00 more). Like Cesare's Beretta trap combo listed here I'm lusting over ......
When we do see a higher (more expensive) grade gun for sale the owners want close to the asking price of a new one so they tend to go unsold unless they're something special (I won't spend 14K on a used Krieghoff when I can get a new one for $1500.00 more). Like Cesare's Beretta trap combo listed here I'm lusting over ......
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Funny that you mentioned that, it seems like I've seen more Ljutic mono come up for sale in the last year then in the last decade... I've attributed this to
- Shooters getting older, and cleaning up stuff...
- Cost associated with the sport.
- Economy taking a nosedive, and I'm afraid it's going to get worse before it gets any better...
- Shooters getting older, and cleaning up stuff...
- Cost associated with the sport.
- Economy taking a nosedive, and I'm afraid it's going to get worse before it gets any better...
I've introduced a number of friends to sporting clays, but not much ongoing activity. Club membership is not insignificant. Even in bulk, $1.00 a shot for target and ammo, means a 100 bird round puts a dent. Add in the rising cost of shotguns and even fuel to get to the club and it begins to get prohibitive - especially for the younger generation we'd like to see more of.
Notice I haven't mentioned the cost of competitions, association memberships, cart rentals or the aftermarket "upgrades" that some deem essential.
Now, that's them. I'm still in it for the long haul. Might shoot a little less often. There's a couple in the EE that I would have jumped on, but I've subscribed to see if they come down. Buyers are not responding well to offers. As for the politics, I'd be real worried if IPSIC was my game, but I don't think it's having much effect on clays. Just thankful for every day I get to shoot.
Notice I haven't mentioned the cost of competitions, association memberships, cart rentals or the aftermarket "upgrades" that some deem essential.
Now, that's them. I'm still in it for the long haul. Might shoot a little less often. There's a couple in the EE that I would have jumped on, but I've subscribed to see if they come down. Buyers are not responding well to offers. As for the politics, I'd be real worried if IPSIC was my game, but I don't think it's having much effect on clays. Just thankful for every day I get to shoot.
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
Hit the nail on the head.
I'm pretty confident that persecution of gun owners by our turd government explains most of what is described in this thread. When Harper was in power, guns were booming in every way (pun intentional), the stores were full and ammo reasonably plentiful. Combine our turd status now with the weird situation in the USA, with their stumble bum president and Dem party rule that has their citizens snapping up and stockpiling ammunition before it can be sent here and you get what we have now. Like everything in human society, all of this can end and hopefully will soon.
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Up until little-pm-trudeau came along, many folks view firearms as an "investment" you could enjoy.
- As in, buy right, and should you need $$ at a later time, you'll most likely be able to sell and either make some $ or at least not lose $. That was even more applicable for the higher end stuff.
With the so-called "assault rifle" ban, handgun ban and the 10,000 joules ban... many people are starting to think that nothing is safe.
- If they look across the pond how some countries are also imposing new rules as to the number of firearms you are allowed to own and for what purposes... It's easy to see why some people might want to move some stuff, not to get stuck with fancy paperweight.
- As in, buy right, and should you need $$ at a later time, you'll most likely be able to sell and either make some $ or at least not lose $. That was even more applicable for the higher end stuff.
With the so-called "assault rifle" ban, handgun ban and the 10,000 joules ban... many people are starting to think that nothing is safe.
- If they look across the pond how some countries are also imposing new rules as to the number of firearms you are allowed to own and for what purposes... It's easy to see why some people might want to move some stuff, not to get stuck with fancy paperweight.
High end anything is hard to sell. The price of used high end stuff gives most everyone the opportunity to buy slightly less quality or even equal quality new. Think about top dollar homes or cars. There is a limited number that can afford the luxury and if they have that much extra money they can probably afford what ever they want new.
Then there is the target rifle/sporting shotgun heavy use. A used upland shotgun or hunting rifle most likely has very few round through it. Anyone that has put that much into a sport has likely fired thousands of rounds through their sporting gun before putting it up on the used market.
Then there is the target rifle/sporting shotgun heavy use. A used upland shotgun or hunting rifle most likely has very few round through it. Anyone that has put that much into a sport has likely fired thousands of rounds through their sporting gun before putting it up on the used market.
I think alot more higher end guns will hit the market soon. The baby boomers bought nice stuff when they hit 40s as they had more disposable income. Houses paid off kids outta school and such. Now they're reaching the age the body just says no to holding a heavy trap or skeet gun. Their pride and joy isn't as useful to them but they spend hard earned money on it and want it back for old age home rent and up coming depends
The slightly younger generation is getting hit with rising costs of living and things maybe getting tight so they're forced to sell what they have that has a high value
Either way shooting sports are declining for some reason yet hunter Ed and pal classes I've seen are almost always full. Dealer inventory is forever changing so so one is buying stock. Maybe not the higher end stuff at the same rate as the cheap stuff
I firmly believe if we can incentify the shooting sports for women we'd be in much better shape as a hole. I see alot of young women taking the pal and hunter Ed classes. Yet rarely do I see them show up to shoot afterwords
The slightly younger generation is getting hit with rising costs of living and things maybe getting tight so they're forced to sell what they have that has a high value
Either way shooting sports are declining for some reason yet hunter Ed and pal classes I've seen are almost always full. Dealer inventory is forever changing so so one is buying stock. Maybe not the higher end stuff at the same rate as the cheap stuff
I firmly believe if we can incentify the shooting sports for women we'd be in much better shape as a hole. I see alot of young women taking the pal and hunter Ed classes. Yet rarely do I see them show up to shoot afterwords
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I think the generation gap (priorities) is more apparent now then ever.
- As kid, I liked nice guns... and as I got older, I wanted "nicer" guns.
Fast forward to 2023. Seems like fewer kids are interested in guns, and more often than not, if/when they get interested, they'll be perfectly happy with the run of the mill offering from the local shop.
- Dropping $1,500 on a IPhone that will be obsolete in a few years is perfectly OK... but that same $ for a shotgun will seem outrageous.
- $5k for a week vacation in Italy, sure... $5k for a shotgun, are you out of your mind.
Different generation, different priorities
You're right, getting more women involved in the sport would be helpful... but I don't think it would change much as far as the higher-end guns.
Pun intended?
I think perhaps the pandemic prison camp put a full stop on shooting competitions. For some senior shooters, this effectively ended their competition phase. For the slightly younger cohort, the sport has lost competitors, prices and costs have gone up and, thanks to the criminal cabal in Ottawa, freedom feels like a lost appendage. These folks are looking at the capital tied up in high-end gear and wondering, "Do I really need two of these?" And, young shooters don't come out like they once did.
I don't see the same dynamic in high-end sporting guns. This could be because sporting clays, for example, was still feasible during the lock down.
I'm personally optimistic as far as shotguns are concerned. Hand gun sports could see a resurrection with a change in government, but they are likely to be an artificially constrained market for the foreseeable future. Single shot rifles, I believe will continue indefinitely as hunting and target shooting tools. Repeating rifles could suffer more difficult circumstances (depending on future governments). The same fate may await autoloaders in general.
However, I expect break action and pump action shotguns (in gauges lower than 10) will constitute the bulk of the market in the future. For this reason, unloading shotgun collections may be premature. At the same time, I don't feel that high-end shotguns will benefit from any of this. High-end products typically suffer massive loss in value the second they become "pre-owned". This is because those who can afford $10-30K for a single shotgun want everything on their personal wish list and aren't about to compromise for the sake of $5K.
Well said ..I have sold off quite a bit in the last couple years and tried to buy what I thought was more suited to my needs.That has worked to some degree although I have been disappointed as well.Turned down a high end trap gun that I wanted but was not feeling to bad about it as I thought I would.So struggle on with the loom of the turd coming for us again with some jaded sense of saving the public from the unwashed ,how does he have the time to tweet Taylor Swift ...grrr
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In my observation, shotguns have made a comeback in recent years. With the George Floyd riots being responsible for a lot of that. But I think lots of people clued back in to their versatility, and power. It certainly helps when you have an awesome one released, like the 1301T, and a company like Aridus that breaks into the market to support it right away. Or the mossberg/ remington shockwave style guns.
Just my $.02...
Just my $.02...
In my opinion there is always an ebb and flo to this sort of thing. Different generations have different takes at any given point in time. Economy is great....economy is $hit. I've been an adult since the mid 1970s. Nothing economically is happening now that I haven't seen before. You want to see problems....try 20% mortgage rates in the early 1980s. You want economic chaos AND global warming......check out the 1930s. Each time so many say "but it's different this time!". No it's not......it's cyclical and it requires visceral memory loss to fuel the cycle.
