gunsaholic
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba
Have to agree with this!!
High value target shotgun desirability
- Thread starter Ashcroft
- Start date
Have to agree with this!!
Lol, not even close to the same thing.
20% interest rates, median income was $35K and average home price was $75K
Today it's 6.5%, $55K average income, and $1 million dollar average detached home price.
Your early 80's problem was nothing like todays, sorry.
High end shotguns are very niche. The market for them is shrinking. The people who are into these shotguns are getting older. After a certain price point these shotguns performance wise plateaus and you're just paying for art. For me, my Beretta A400 is all the shotgun I need. Younger guys don't have as much disposable income and those that do rather spend the money on Gucci semis and NODS.
Oh it’s different now!
Try average Canadian home price in 1981 $175,000
Average Canadian home price in 2023 $730,000
You weren’t even close.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The latest Labour Force survey says the average annual income for Canada in 2022 was $59,300.... so you were kinda close.
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well, I'm pretty sure house price in the 80s were much better then today
- Then again, in the 80s seemed like a house was a place to stay... and since the early 2000s, a house has become a way to make a quick buck flipping it for a 10-15% gain every year.
Who would have thought that all that speculation could not have a happy ending?
- Ho wait, I know... the same elite and bankers that didn't anything wrong with the government creating ever bigger deficit (with no conceivable way of playing it off)
- Then again, in the 80s seemed like a house was a place to stay... and since the early 2000s, a house has become a way to make a quick buck flipping it for a 10-15% gain every year.
Who would have thought that all that speculation could not have a happy ending?
- Ho wait, I know... the same elite and bankers that didn't anything wrong with the government creating ever bigger deficit (with no conceivable way of playing it off)
I would like to add that new shooters are looking for the latest/greatest and what is stocked on the shelves in stores.
I would say low end and mid grade shotguns (Browning/Beretta) move the most in this country. As like anything else, high end has it's customer base.
High end gun manufacturers lack in the department of marketing. Where are you going to handle a high end gun in store. Also, being in Canada, serviceability is tough. Gunsmiths are lacking and what few remain are getting up there in age.
I only shoot trap in terms of clays. My Perazzi TM1 is a 50 year old gun that just smashes clays, I can easily fix myself, except for the locking block. My Krieghoff, well that has to be shipped out.
More often than not, deals are done on the field. Why, because of trust.
I had a Citori 725 Trap Maple listed on CGN, #######, and Trapshooters.com. Couldn't get much interest. Took it out to the club last week and a guy bought it on the spot.
Money is a big one too. I am looking at getting into skeet. I have no desire to plop money down on a gun and find out that I don't like skeet. I am looking at getting a Stoeger Condor Competition which a $1000 gun. If I don't like skeet, then I am not out much money. If I like skeet, I would upgrade to a Beretta 686/687/694 sporting.
I would say low end and mid grade shotguns (Browning/Beretta) move the most in this country. As like anything else, high end has it's customer base.
High end gun manufacturers lack in the department of marketing. Where are you going to handle a high end gun in store. Also, being in Canada, serviceability is tough. Gunsmiths are lacking and what few remain are getting up there in age.
I only shoot trap in terms of clays. My Perazzi TM1 is a 50 year old gun that just smashes clays, I can easily fix myself, except for the locking block. My Krieghoff, well that has to be shipped out.
More often than not, deals are done on the field. Why, because of trust.
I had a Citori 725 Trap Maple listed on CGN, #######, and Trapshooters.com. Couldn't get much interest. Took it out to the club last week and a guy bought it on the spot.
Money is a big one too. I am looking at getting into skeet. I have no desire to plop money down on a gun and find out that I don't like skeet. I am looking at getting a Stoeger Condor Competition which a $1000 gun. If I don't like skeet, then I am not out much money. If I like skeet, I would upgrade to a Beretta 686/687/694 sporting.
I don't want to get into a disposable income debate but homeownership was pretty much a given a generation ago for any one willing to work. The vast majority of 20-30 years olds feel they will never own a home now, and that was before the last interest rate hikes. How many people that do not own a home have high end target shotguns?
The goal of government, as clearly stated, is to eliminate non essential spending by the public to slow the inflation rate. You either eliminate excessive spending by government (not gonna happen under this socialist regime) or raise interest rates so the middle class has nothing. Once the population becomes dependent, the government has power and control, socialism 101. Vehicle ownership for the average Joe will be a thing of the past in the near future, high end anything for pure enjoyment will be only for the rich.
The goal of government, as clearly stated, is to eliminate non essential spending by the public to slow the inflation rate. You either eliminate excessive spending by government (not gonna happen under this socialist regime) or raise interest rates so the middle class has nothing. Once the population becomes dependent, the government has power and control, socialism 101. Vehicle ownership for the average Joe will be a thing of the past in the near future, high end anything for pure enjoyment will be only for the rich.
You may be on to something here, certainly worth some thought given the way our way of life has been sliding downhill over the last ten years or so. It started gradually but it’s becoming more obvious with each passing year.
Meanwhile, back to the question of high end guns... when a shooter gets close or gets into the higher echelon of a sport, like hockey or any pro sport, self confidence - the head game - is crucial. Having a high quality gun specially designed for the sport is a confidence builder and just one more piece of the puzzle for success.
On the topic of high end guns I’d also like to add that ‘high end’ guns that are in excess of 100 yrs old can still be bought today and are still absolutely functional.
So maybe supply is destined to outstrip demand since any one high end gun can outlive the lifetime of just one shooter?
I get that modern day shooters aren’t shooting vintage but generally I think the logic applies within more recent history.
How many Dt-10’s11’s, k80’s and mx-8’s are made each year vs actually need to be to fill the void for high end competition sporting guns?
I also get that probably a certain number need to be made each year to keep the machinery of industry going so that production continues and is not lost forever.
I figure some shooters who own these types of guns have more than one too, reducing the use of any one in those instances as well.
Not to say then that in a New World Order we only need and therefore must be limited to just one gun, no, I’d like to maintain the right to have 10 or 20 thanks.
Back to the subject I can’t say that I’m overly surprised to see them available for sale.
No doubt that shooting is expensive, perhaps more so during these economic times, and further shooting as a pastime is becoming less popular and/or socially accepted than it has been in the past.
So demand is diminishing in those regards, but also I think that lots of these guns are being made and since well made they last a long time, so I’m not surprised to see them come up for sale.
On the topic of disposable income in today’s canada I see a lot of young people with a lot of expensive sh$t.
That is a matter of priorities.
I also believe that in the younger generation there is a belief that once they fly the coop/or get kicked out of the nest from mom and dad’s that they must be moving directly into a new home, that a fixer upper or an apartment wouldn’t do.
Young people can’t buy a home, what young people ever could?
Correct me if I’m wrong oldtimers but when you were 20 could you just waltz out and buy a home?
Admittedly today’s rent is expensive but perhaps these sub 30 somethings expect a bit too much?
These days if someone wants to work don’t they just pick up a trade and get started, don’t even need uni for that no, and the pay is good?
If they do uni or college then there are more options, all the civil/municipal servant stuff and all the way into the professional fields.
It certainly sounds easy, although life in stories and as we watch it on the big screen always is.
Just whatever you do if it’s money you want don’t bother trying to become an artist.
That fundamental has not changed.
Regardless not many youngsters shooting 18k$$ dt-11’s....although I bet there’s more than a few of them with some pretty cool high end sh$t.....motorcycles, sxs’s of the motorized variety, watches, cars, sneaker collections, turntables, computers, rare magic cards, tattoo collections, blah blah ad nauseum etc. (Not all of this stuff do i think is cool!)
So maybe supply is destined to outstrip demand since any one high end gun can outlive the lifetime of just one shooter?
I get that modern day shooters aren’t shooting vintage but generally I think the logic applies within more recent history.
How many Dt-10’s11’s, k80’s and mx-8’s are made each year vs actually need to be to fill the void for high end competition sporting guns?
I also get that probably a certain number need to be made each year to keep the machinery of industry going so that production continues and is not lost forever.
I figure some shooters who own these types of guns have more than one too, reducing the use of any one in those instances as well.
Not to say then that in a New World Order we only need and therefore must be limited to just one gun, no, I’d like to maintain the right to have 10 or 20 thanks.
Back to the subject I can’t say that I’m overly surprised to see them available for sale.
No doubt that shooting is expensive, perhaps more so during these economic times, and further shooting as a pastime is becoming less popular and/or socially accepted than it has been in the past.
So demand is diminishing in those regards, but also I think that lots of these guns are being made and since well made they last a long time, so I’m not surprised to see them come up for sale.
On the topic of disposable income in today’s canada I see a lot of young people with a lot of expensive sh$t.
That is a matter of priorities.
I also believe that in the younger generation there is a belief that once they fly the coop/or get kicked out of the nest from mom and dad’s that they must be moving directly into a new home, that a fixer upper or an apartment wouldn’t do.
Young people can’t buy a home, what young people ever could?
Correct me if I’m wrong oldtimers but when you were 20 could you just waltz out and buy a home?
Admittedly today’s rent is expensive but perhaps these sub 30 somethings expect a bit too much?
These days if someone wants to work don’t they just pick up a trade and get started, don’t even need uni for that no, and the pay is good?
If they do uni or college then there are more options, all the civil/municipal servant stuff and all the way into the professional fields.
It certainly sounds easy, although life in stories and as we watch it on the big screen always is.
Just whatever you do if it’s money you want don’t bother trying to become an artist.
That fundamental has not changed.
Regardless not many youngsters shooting 18k$$ dt-11’s....although I bet there’s more than a few of them with some pretty cool high end sh$t.....motorcycles, sxs’s of the motorized variety, watches, cars, sneaker collections, turntables, computers, rare magic cards, tattoo collections, blah blah ad nauseum etc. (Not all of this stuff do i think is cool!)
Correct. You rarely see the top shooters using basic guns for competition.
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
Prophet River just had 6 Ljutics brought in from an estate sale. A buddy of mine bought one before they even got them posted online. Two are quite rare for Ljutics, one being a 2 barreled set semi-automatic(28" & 30" bbls) and the other an O/U and there is also a 2bbl set single shot...somebody liked his Ljutics!
I think many of the reasons previously listed are contributors, however one I haven’t seen mentioned is the proliferation of “tactical” gun culture. I like to think I’m still fairly young (mid-30’s), many of my friends and co-workers are into firearms, however of the dozens of people I know who seriously shoot I’m one of only two who participates in “traditional” shooting sports. I know several people who have spent $10k+ on precision rifles and/or 3-gun set-ups. Decent coin is still being spent on shooting sports, but in my experience most people my age would rather be launching a slug at a static target than shot at a clay. They’d rather shoot an A-zone with a race gun than an X-ring with an air pistol. They’d rather shoot out to 1000m with big rifles than shoot biathlon with a .22.
Times have changed. People entering the shooting sports in the past decade or two have had more choice than those who came before, and for the most part aren’t choosing traditional disciplines. They may dabble and have fun now and again, but won’t sink serious time or money into it over other options.
So, short answer, it’s a rapidly shrinking demographic.
Times have changed. People entering the shooting sports in the past decade or two have had more choice than those who came before, and for the most part aren’t choosing traditional disciplines. They may dabble and have fun now and again, but won’t sink serious time or money into it over other options.
So, short answer, it’s a rapidly shrinking demographic.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
TT1900, I think you make some very good points.
I think you might be assuming that people are more consistantly rational than they are!
You've heard of the term "house poor" for example - when people buy more house than they can actually afford, and then are left cash-strapped with no extra income for the usual accessories.
Similarly, I see people all the time who are "boat poor" , "car poor" , or more likely "new truck poor" , and now for sure you can add "gun poor" to the list.
I know I recently bought my marlin 1895, and even paid extra to import it. But if dave ramsey audited my books, i'm sure he'd say that I wasn't in a position to actually afford it, and certainly I don't have a lot left right now to buy rounds for it.
Reminds me of the meme i've seen here several times, that says "when people see my gun collection, they assume i'm rich... but really i'm just irresponsible!"
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I am a member of TITSC in Innisfil and primarily shoot trap.
Top dogs are Perazzi, Krieghoff, Beretta DT11.
Only seen 1 Blaser F3 super sport, 1 Zoli (skeet field), 1 Silver Seitz, 3 Caesar Guerini, 4 Ljutics. Last weekend I saw 3 Beretta Gold E on the same rack!
Few Browning Citori's, the Beretta 694 is getting popular.
On the trap field, most guys who run top guns are older folks.
Some of the desirabilty I presume is peer pressure to fit in, show off the new toy, getting the looks, ability to achieve something greater, dream gun.
I am mid 30's and have a Perazzi and Krieghoff.
Head over to bunker trap and you will see high end cars, high end guns, Pilla sunglasses and the clothing to match the sport.
Top dogs are Perazzi, Krieghoff, Beretta DT11.
Only seen 1 Blaser F3 super sport, 1 Zoli (skeet field), 1 Silver Seitz, 3 Caesar Guerini, 4 Ljutics. Last weekend I saw 3 Beretta Gold E on the same rack!
Few Browning Citori's, the Beretta 694 is getting popular.
On the trap field, most guys who run top guns are older folks.
Some of the desirabilty I presume is peer pressure to fit in, show off the new toy, getting the looks, ability to achieve something greater, dream gun.
I am mid 30's and have a Perazzi and Krieghoff.
Head over to bunker trap and you will see high end cars, high end guns, Pilla sunglasses and the clothing to match the sport.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Many shooters don't realize that targets and ammo are the biggest cost in shotgun sports. It's pretty easy to spend the price of a premium gun in targets and ammo in a couple of years!
