High-volume .223 reloading; to trim or not to trim?!

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Doc M

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Hi All -

I have a question for the high-volume .223/5.56x45 reloaders out there.

Do you guys trim all your brass for the AR platform or not?

Here's what my setup looks like for my high-volume reloading, with commercial or military cases:

1 - FL Resize/deprime, single-stage.
2 - Remove crimp, single-stage (RCBS swager).
3 - Trim to length: First used Lee cutter/lock stud, then RCBS trimmer with my own cordless drill rigged up to the spindle; chamfer/deburr by hand. Now using a Possum Hollow Kwik-Trim which leaves such a small burr I don't need to chamfer/deburr - big time savings I find. If I didn't go this route I would have gone to the RCBS 3-way cutter for sure.
4 - Prime by hand, RCBS tool. Prefer this for 'feel' when using crimped pockets, in case I messed up swaging. If commercial, straight to step 5 for on-press priming.
5 - On to the Lee Loadmaster for powder, bullet, crimp. If pure commercial lot, priming done on-press.

Now, I'm thinking of getting a Dillon 650 or 1050 - my question is, do you guys trim every piece of brass to minimum OAL before putting them into your progressive, or do you just feed the once-fired cases straight in for sizing? If I didn't have to trim etc. then I could use a 1050 to recycle STUPID quantities of milsurp brass (using the on-press swaging station) into cheap .223 ammo.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery? How do you run your show? Does using a factory crimp into the cannelure (i.e. Lee die) negate the necessity for trimming? I know having over-length brass can elevate chamber pressures quite quickly, but if I crimp is this problem somewhat reduced? It's not like an AR15 has an ultramatch chamber...

Thanks in advance for any insight!

-M
 
I just ordered the giraud power trimmer, wait time of about 4 weeks.

Had to sell my glock to buy it, but I'm a new shooter and I think of it as an investment, because there is absolutely nothing I hate more than trimming brass. I did about 60 rounds of .223 and then put my glock up for sale to pay for the power tri
mer.
 
I prep the brass first. Trim with a Giraud trimmer, then everything else on the 650 including priming. Loaded 1000 Montana Golds with great results. I did however reduce my powder charge 1 grain to keep the powder from flying around while rotating.
Hope this helps.
 
ron hilchey said:
I prep the brass first. Trim with a Giraud trimmer, then everything else on the 650 including priming. Loaded 1000 Montana Golds with great results. I did however reduce my powder charge 1 grain to keep the powder from flying around while rotating.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

So, you just trim to min OAL plus a few thou? I think this is what I'm going to do eventually... trim the fired brass to minimum, knowing it won't stretch 20 thou during sizing.

-M
 
I'd like to know if there are any shortcuts that don't take away from accuracy or safety. High volume rifle reloading is a challenge. I do it now like Doc describes, one step at a time for each case, trimming each case after sizing. I'd be worried about the bolt not closing on a case that is too long.
 
I suppose I should clarify that this is just going to be for .223 AR15 plinking ammo - accuracy need not apply for the distances I'll be shooting, really. I load match-grade .308 and could do the same with .223 if I wanted, but I just want LOTS of rounds per hour for the AR... lol!

-M
 
I have a power trimmer, and I used to trim after every second shooting. Seemed lame to me. I switched to an RCBS xdie, and have not had to trim since. The cases are the same length out of the die every time. Accuracy is good enough too. Unless there is an ill effect that I do not know of, I am not in a rush to trim.
 
High volume reloading generally means lots of brass and includes some that you salvaged from the range, but it likely was from someone else.

You could measure every piece of brass that you pick up and sort by size and then only trim what you need to. For me it is easier and simpler to just size and trim all the brass and be done with it. All on a Dillon 550.

I have one Dillon tool head set up with FL sizing die and Dillon electric trimmer. After sizing and trimming the necks are de-burred and then everything is tumbled to remove the lube and get all the brass nice and shiny.

The nice clean brass is inspected one more time before I put the second tool head on the press and reload the brass.

To me the decision came down to trimming everything in a fairly quick process or to spend some time to measure every piece of brass and then just size some of the brass and size/trim the remainder (which meant a change to the tool head). For me it was faster to just trim it all and be done with it.
 
I paid for my first 1050 processing once fired police range brass.

I used a dedicated toolhead on the 1050 to do nothing but process brass.

Station 1) Dillon small base carbide die, adjusted using thier case gauge
2) Backing die for the swager
3-5 empty
6) Dillon RT1200 trimmer with shop vac attached for chips

While many once fired cases need little trimming, it just made sense to set the trimmer to 1.750 and know that not one over length case slipped by.

I would clean and sort brass by headstamp first. Lube was Dillon spray lube, allowed to dry completely.

After processing, the cases went for a 30 minute swim in fresh untreated corn cob media.

While the RT1200 leaves almost no burrs, and thin filliments left over are scoured off in the tumbler.
 
I thought about the RT1200 being a decent option... money is king, however... I'm thinking I'll just set my Possum Hollow to trim to minimum BEFORE sizing. Problem is, it uses the shoulder as a datum point - this might be a problem - not so much with brass from my own rifle, but with once-fired Mil brass...

Guess it's trial and error time with some small batches!

-M
 
ralphs said:
I have one Dillon tool head set up with FL sizing die and Dillon electric trimmer. After sizing and trimming the necks are de-burred and then everything is tumbled to remove the lube and get all the brass nice and shiny.

The nice clean brass is inspected one more time before I put the second tool head on the press and reload the brass.
Click to expand...

+1, except that I use a SB die on the first tool head then trim ... then chamfer, primer pocket ream and and crimp remove (VLD inside chamfer) on a RCBS Prep Center. My ARs are picky and the SB die treats recycled and range pick-up brass equally - never a feed problem due to brass. Second toolhead has a neck size die on it to avoid the need for lube (and to knock the corn cob out of the flash hole). Could get by on a universal decapping die instead.
 
Okay, so where's the best price in Canada for a 1050? I saw at P+D the other day that they have 650's in 308 and 223, but I REALLY like the on-press swaging option... and have access to a ton of ex-mil brass.

-M
 
Doc M said:
Okay, so where's the best price in Canada for a 1050? I saw at P+D the other day that they have 650's in 308 and 223, but I REALLY like the on-press swaging option... and have access to a ton of ex-mil brass.

-M
Click to expand...

An add in the EE, or order from one of our dealers (P&D, CRAFM), or order direct.
 
Adamg_55 said:
I just ordered the giraud power trimmer, wait time of about 4 weeks.

Had to sell my glock to buy it, but I'm a new shooter and I think of it as an investment, because there is absolutely nothing I hate more than trimming brass. I did about 60 rounds of .223 and then put my glock up for sale to pay for the power tri
mer.
Click to expand...


I like your tenacious attitude. :D
 
Doc M your present high-volume .223 loading sounds darn-near match quality to me!

I've never seen a Dillon 1050 but have always been interested in them and would love to see one. In particular I'd love to know how they do the primer pocket swaging.

I have a 650 and I occasionally do "high volume" .223 or .308 on it. I was recently sizing some 1X fired military .223 brass, and as I was swaging the primer pockets it with the Dillon swaging tool I was wondering if one might be able to do this on the press itself - replace the primer seater with a specially shaped swaging tool. The only "gotcha" I can think of is that th press holds the case by only half of its rim, I wonder if that is strong enough to swage the primer pocket without distorting the extractor groove? (my guess is that it would probably be OK...) Anybody try this....? I was even thinking of suggesting this to Dillon, or asking their opinion on it.


When processing once-fired brass, I have found that it is not necessary to trim them. Obviously at some point trimming will be necessary.

I have a Dillon RT1200 and I use it only rarely, I find it is a colossal pain. It is really fast (that's the good part), but it is noisy as hell, needs a shopvac or equivalent to suck away the chips (even more noise!!), and it cuts the case mouth very squarely leaving a very sharp edge that needs chamfering both inside and out.

It's actually the RT1200's need for chamfering that (mostly) defeats its utility as a high-throughput tool for me. I wonder how/if others have solved this problem?

Doc M said:
I'm thinking I'll just set my Possum Hollow to trim to minimum BEFORE sizing. Problem is, it uses the shoulder as a datum point - this might be a problem - not so much with brass from my own rifle, but with once-fired Mil brass...
Click to expand...

Even then it shouldn't be a problem. The shortest you would expect a fired case to be (from a zero-headspaced bolt gun) would be "+0" thou. My AR-15 fired brass measures "+5" thou (as well as all military fired brass that I've measured). So you could set your tool to trim to 1.750", and depending what brass you use to set it up you might see some coming out as short as 1.745" or as long as 1.755", neither of which is a problem really.

(I assume there must be some reason why you can't set up your trimmer after a case has been sized..?)
 
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