"Higher End" Rifle and Ammo

Dmay

Dmay

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I ain't much of a rimfire guy. I shoot several hundred rounds a year at gophers with a couple production guns, but am wondering about the potential of higher end rimfire rifles.
Does a Cooper or Anschutz shoot substantially better than my BRNO?
Does high-end ammo improve it a great deal?

I know that, just like any other situation, some guns like some ammo better, I get that, just wondering about the "quality" rimfire world, because I have no experience in it.

Thanks.
 
Might be hard to beat the BRNO for accuracy, even high end Coopers or Annies may not shoot better. Match ammo will shoot better when you find the right one, but it will be expensive and not the best choice for gophers, the low velocity makes expansion iffy and trajectory steep. I'd try to find the most accurate high velocity, Hollow Point or some such, my Mauser 201 liked the CCI segmented HP. The drop at 100 yds was half as much as the target ammo, and makes quick kills on gophers.
 
High end ammo makes a huge difference in a reasonable quality gun. It is not going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear though. Cooper has a guarantee for accuracy. I believe it is a cherry picked 3 shot group of 1/4" or less at 50 yards. A well tuned Savage with top end Lapua or Eley ammo will most likely do that too, but no guarantee. On the Anschutz line be aware there are two basic models of actions; the 54 and 64. The 64 action with a sporter barrel is not going to give real top accuracy, but decent - in the range of a Savage or CZ but not necessarily any better. Target shooters use the 54 action and a good heavy barrel. That kind of gun is going to easily do under 1/4" at 50 yards with 5 shot groups of good ammo.

Remember a box of 500 of the top end ammo is in the range of $200, so you can easily outspend the value of a less expensive gun in no time using it.
 
I don't think there would be fundamental difference in accuracy.
Basically in the rimfire sport you don't even have to be that precise - 10-ring size on 50 meters is 16mm in diameter, that makes 1.1 MOA.
Since practically half of the guys here shoots 0.5 MOA - they should easily go to the Olympics final :) :)

The idea that high-end rifle and ammo at $150+ per brick is needed only when you are squeezing last 2 points - e.g. make 100 from 98.
It would not apply to hunting, since distance, bullet drop and wind would change much more than the rifle or ammo class difference.
E.g. the difference in holes on targets at 15 and 18 meters - 6 MOA, that makes 2 centimeters drop (only in 3 meter change of distance!) This is using RWS Championship edition - subsonic: http://www.sport.rottweil-munition.de/en/products/rimfire-cartridges/championship-edition.html

Try your rifle and ammo at the range using benchrest under good conditions - lighting, without wind/indoors, etc. to get the idea how it performs. Then - work on wind, distance and ballistic chart for the specific ammo.
 
Good advice above. In my case, almost any rimfire you put in my hands is capable of shooting to my ability. I am not the least bit afraid or ashamed to accept that I am not a "natural" good shot. I have been shooting and hunting for 50 years, and just do my best. I use an absolute stock stainless/wood 10/22 with a decent Bushnell $130 scope for shooting gophers. I think firing some warning shots is only fair anyway!!:p
 
10-ring size on 50 meters is 16mm in diameter, that makes 1.1 MOA
Click to expand...

I don't know where you took your info but the 50 meters 10 ring on the ISSF (Olympic) target is 10.4mm, not 16mm....

Paul
 
250-25X said:
I don't know where you took your info but the 50 meters 10 ring on the ISSF (Olympic) target is 10.4mm, not 16mm....

Paul
Click to expand...

OK, I mean that hole center has to be within 16mm - because center is used in calculation what maximum dispersion (group size) is acceptable to score 10.

10 ring is 10.4, plus 2 times half of the bullet diameter: 5.6 / 2 * 2 = 16mm
 
Ron AKA said:
High end ammo makes a huge difference in a reasonable quality gun. It is not going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear though. Cooper has a guarantee for accuracy. I believe it is a cherry picked 3 shot group of 1/4" or less at 50 yards. A well tuned Savage with top end Lapua or Eley ammo will most likely do that too, but no guarantee. On the Anschutz line be aware there are two basic models of actions; the 54 and 64. The 64 action with a sporter barrel is not going to give real top accuracy, but decent - in the range of a Savage or CZ but not necessarily any better. Target shooters use the 54 action and a good heavy barrel. That kind of gun is going to easily do under 1/4" at 50 yards with 5 shot groups of good ammo.

Remember a box of 500 of the top end ammo is in the range of $200, so you can easily outspend the value of a less expensive gun in no time using it.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ron.....pretty much exactly what I was trying to ask.
Thanks all.....don't plan to compete or anything, just have the urge for a new .22.........
 
Dmay, If you have it to spend buy a 54 action anschutz, and most ammo will shoot well out of it, when you buy excellent ammo it shoots bone straight. Once you buy a very accurate 22 its gets real hard to shoot anything else. Its really worth doing, just for the sheer enjoyment of knowing your gun will shoot exactly where you point it. Your Bruno will not compete head to head with an 54 action anschutz, even thought its an excellent 22.
 
Most older BRNO's were known for there accuracy with ST VEL AMMO in most cases. I have about every type of higher end 22 BOLT actions and found that just because it is expensive ammo, don't mean it will shoot any better than your average priced ammo. I have a WIn model 52C and I shoot CCI st. vel. for my tighest groups, I then tryed some RWS50 rifle match, very expensive!, but it was like shooting shotgun patterns compared to the other ammo. Every gun will have a preference, and unless you are obssesed with ultimate accuracy, most affordable ammo will work with a little testing. I buy 50 round boxes and try about 4-6 differrent brands, and ussually will then buy a case of what works best. Glad to hear guys are still shooting there BRNO's Dale Z!
 
My heavy barrel Winchester Wildcat will shoot on par with my two Model 54's using Eley Match ammo- both put five into under an inch at 100 yards with about 75% repeatably, with four of those five in a half inch plus or minus a few hundredths of an inch.

The cost to performance curve is an exponential one- is it worth it to spend six times more on a 'better' gun to eek out a 5% improvement in performance?

You'd be better served to pick up a heavy barrel Savage or Wildcat (if you can find one) and spend two hundred bucks on high end ammo to test, then when you find a brand and lot that shoots very very well, buy a case of it- now you've got less than $2000 (assuming you splurged and bought $1000/case match ammo) into the program and have a rifle that performs consistently.
 
Dmay,
I have always been a rimfire guy, and I spent about 10 years chasing ultimate accuracy with a .22LR.

The biggest difference between rimfire and other types of shooting is you can't handload. You are limited to production ammo. You have to experiment with many different lots of match ammo to get the best results from each rifle under each set of conditions. Some ammo works better in the wind, some in the cold. You learn which machine at which factory produces each lot- they are stamped with a number on the box flap. The differences between lots can be dramatic in a rifle with a tight match chamber. You have to keep notes. You have to buy a whole pile of expensive ammo. Some of the most accurate rimfire rifles are very fussy about ammo. The Annies I owned seemed excessively so. I sold them.

Ultimate rimfire accuracy doesn't come cheap. I bought a quality competition rest and a big pile of match rifles. By the time I was done I had spent more than 40K. On a calm, warm day at 50 yards I used to put 25 consecutive shots on 25 bullseyes the size of this letter "o" , with thirteen of the shots taking it clean out. It took many years of tinkering and experimentation to get to this point. My best unmodified rifle was a BSA martini international with a one piece rest shooting lapua ( don't recall the type and lot right now-its posted in the rimfire matches on RFC). Best custom rifle was based on a winchester 52d. I am a mediocre position shooter, but I believe you can become a decent benchrest shooter without much physical skill or athleticism if you are patient, methodical, and willing to spend a lot of time and money.
I took it up because my eyesight is too weak to shoot iron sights.

In my opinion a .22 is a 50 yard gun. My results at 100 were not pretty.
Some people claim to shoot quarter inch groups at 100, but I have never been able to come close to that.
 
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