Hirtenberger surplus 7.62x51mm + M14/M1A = ???

HK45auto

HK45auto

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Hey CGN,

Looking to do some more shooting of my M1A and to keep on stock piling my .308/7.62x51 brass all while while trying to keep the costs down :p

Anyways...

What are your experinces with this ammo and these patterm rifles?

- Accuracy?

- Brass quality? Any issues when reloading it or extra steps needed?

- I have read it is "hot" any issues or undo stressed caused to the gun?

- Best place to pick some up?

***Only really interested in the boxer primed stuff***

Many thanks!!!

- HK45auto
 
I've been shooting the Berdan primed rounds (have Boxer as well, but saving those for later) from my FNAR. It shoots very well (I'm not a great shot), usually about 1.5-2 MOA and I can ping the 8 inch steel @ 200 yards 5/5 all day long. I think TradeEx has a deal on cases with free shipping.
 
Your absolute best results will come from handloads tuned to that particular rifle. But for volume shooting and training, the Austrian milsurp is just about as good as it gets. Large quantities, reloadable although the primers are crimped, 147gr FMJ and comparatively inexpensive. GET SOME!
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Your absolute best results will come from handloads tuned to that particular rifle. But for volume shooting and training, the Austrian milsurp is just about as good as it gets. Large quantities, reloadable although the primers are crimped, 147gr FMJ and comparatively inexpensive. GET SOME!
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That is my plan...I do not have a press yet but I have almost 500 peices of brass saved up and a hand deprimer and I am getting a wet tumbler set up soon as well...hoping to get around 1,500 cleaned and prepped cases saved up before I start :)
 
HK45auto said:
That is my plan...I do not have a press yet but I have almost 500 peices of brass saved up and a hand deprimer and I am getting a wet tumbler set up soon as well...hoping to get around 1,500 cleaned and prepped cases saved up before I start :)
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If the cases have been fired from the same rifle, you don't need to size (or clean for that matter). There are lots of recipes for loads. I suggest you stick to 147, 150 and 155grain bullets so as to not overpressure your op rod. Load as long as you can to reach the Chinese shop class chambering leade. Then bang away as consistently as you can.
 
The M14 was designed to shoot the 7.62mm NATO M80 and or our C21/C21A1 ball cartridges.
If the Hirtenberg stuff is close to that recipe then it will shoot it very well.
I've shot much older 7.62mm NATO surplus in my M14. It not only shoots it very accurately but your elevation and windage dials on your rifle are actually tuned to this load. So if you calibrate your irons properly then you can effectively engage targets out to 500 and 600 meters with irons as long as you can see them.
 
zuke said:
But the $1,000 000 question is! Where do we get affordable 150gr FMJ's?
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Campro...$140/500 https://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/30-cal-308-bullets-campro-147gr-fmj-bt-cp-30147-box-500
Hirt boxer brass is nice to reload for bolt guns, it's closer to commercial brass then it is to NATO, and has very tiny Palma sized flash holes. Makes for very accurate loads in my bolt guns.
If you want brass that can handle repeated loadings in Auto loaders, IVI from Xreload is the bomb.
 
Hitzy said:
Campro...$140/500 https://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/30-cal-308-bullets-campro-147gr-fmj-bt-cp-30147-box-500
Hirt boxer brass is nice to reload for bolt guns, it's closer to commercial brass then it is to NATO, and has very tiny Palma sized flash holes. Makes for very accurate loads in my bolt guns.
If you want brass that can handle repeated loadings in Auto loaders, IVI from Xreload is the bomb.
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Hmmm? With bulk bullets at .28 cents each, it is cheap enough to weigh, inspect, and sort for imperfections before loading. Assuming a reasonable standard bell-curve of outliers and a central range, even if half were unsuited that is still about .50 cents apiece.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Hmmm? With bulk bullets at .28 cents each, it is cheap enough to weigh, inspect, and sort for imperfections before loading. Assuming a reasonable standard bell-curve of outliers and a central range, even if half were unsuited that is still about .50 cents apiece.
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They shoot quite well, not as good as the Hornady 150gr FMJ's...I get near match grade results with those pills, but these are not far behind. If you weighed and sorted you could probably make some impressive cheap ammo.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
If the cases have been fired from the same rifle, you don't need to size (or clean for that matter). There are lots of recipes for loads. I suggest you stick to 147, 150 and 155grain bullets so as to not overpressure your op rod. Load as long as you can to reach the Chinese shop class chambering leade. Then bang away as consistently as you can.
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Thanks for the advice!!! My rifle is an Springfield M1A "loaded" model with a NM barrel, not a Chinese one so I hope it produces better results!!!
 
The Hirt ammo I've tried ('75 berdan, '80 & '83 boxer) has all been reliable out of the M14 platform rifles I've tried it in, Chi-com, SAI & LRB as well as my build rifles. They do not seem to be over pressure for the gas system. Where I have had issues was in accuracy.... generally no more than 5" groups, with some being a bit smaller. The Hirt does make very good Mexican Match ammo if you have the time to pull bullets and weigh charges. I've seen projectiles as much as 3.5gr off the average and powder charges as much as 1.5gr off the average as well. Once the out of spec bullets are culled and the powder charges re-weighed, I've got the Hirt to shoot 2.5" 10 round groups out of many different rifles. The berdan primed ammo seemed to shoot better than the Boxer stuff and I've burned through 4 crates of the berdan ammo.

I quite frankly call BS on anybody claiming MOA "all day long" out of any type of rifle with Hirt ammo.... at least it hasn't been my XP over the course of 8 crates and 35+ rifles.... It may be possible to get the odd 3-round 1MOA group, maybe once in a blue moon a 5-round group..... with a bolt gun.

However it is still brass cased, and reliable ammo, which you can't beat for the price. Compared to commercial brass cased ammo (Federal or PMC) it is cheaper, if less "accurate". IMHO.

John

John
 
Thank you,Sir!

m14medic.ca said:
The Hirt ammo I've tried ('75 berdan, '80 & '83 boxer) has all been reliable out of the M14 platform rifles I've tried it in, Chi-com, SAI & LRB as well as my build rifles. They do not seem to be over pressure for the gas system. Where I have had issues was in accuracy.... generally no more than 5" groups, with some being a bit smaller. The Hirt does make very good Mexican Match ammo if you have the time to pull bullets and weigh charges. I've seen projectiles as much as 3.5gr off the average and powder charges as much as 1.5gr off the average as well. Once the out of spec bullets are culled and the powder charges re-weighed, I've got the Hirt to shoot 2.5" 10 round groups out of many different rifles. The berdan primed ammo seemed to shoot better than the Boxer stuff and I've burned through 4 crates of the berdan ammo.

I quite frankly call BS on anybody claiming MOA "all day long" out of any type of rifle with Hirt ammo.... at least it hasn't been my XP over the course of 8 crates and 35+ rifles.... It may be possible to get the odd 3-round 1MOA group, maybe once in a blue moon a 5-round group..... with a bolt gun.

However it is still brass cased, and reliable ammo, which you can't beat for the price. Compared to commercial brass cased ammo (Federal or PMC) it is cheaper, if less "accurate". IMHO.

John

John
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My observations exactly. Santa Barbara and Portuguese FMN ammo is 1.5MOA or better ammo, the Hirt stuff is not.
 
How does Hirtenberger stand up to Norc surplus accuracy wise?

I know it's not reloadable but I can get 500 rounds of it for $300 vs 240 rounds for $200.
 
m14medic.ca said:
The Hirt ammo I've tried ('75 berdan, '80 & '83 boxer) has all been reliable out of the M14 platform rifles I've tried it in, Chi-com, SAI & LRB as well as my build rifles. They do not seem to be over pressure for the gas system. Where I have had issues was in accuracy.... generally no more than 5" groups, with some being a bit smaller. The Hirt does make very good Mexican Match ammo if you have the time to pull bullets and weigh charges. I've seen projectiles as much as 3.5gr off the average and powder charges as much as 1.5gr off the average as well. Once the out of spec bullets are culled and the powder charges re-weighed, I've got the Hirt to shoot 2.5" 10 round groups out of many different rifles. The berdan primed ammo seemed to shoot better than the Boxer stuff and I've burned through 4 crates of the berdan ammo.

I quite frankly call BS on anybody claiming MOA "all day long" out of any type of rifle with Hirt ammo.... at least it hasn't been my XP over the course of 8 crates and 35+ rifles.... It may be possible to get the odd 3-round 1MOA group, maybe once in a blue moon a 5-round group..... with a bolt gun.

However it is still brass cased, and reliable ammo, which you can't beat for the price. Compared to commercial brass cased ammo (Federal or PMC) it is cheaper, if less "accurate". IMHO.

John

John
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The run-out on the bullets is atrocious, I think that is the major factor in the lack of accuracy with Hirt.
Roll one on a flat table and watch how much the tip wobbles up and down to see what I mean.
I ran some through a bolt action target rifle for S&G and it wasn't pretty. It does go bang, and the boxer brass is good stuff to reload.
 
HK45auto said:
How does Hirtenberger stand up to Norc surplus accuracy wise?

I know it's not reloadable but I can get 500 rounds of it for $300 vs 240 rounds for $200.
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I've used 3 different "lots" of Chinese copperwash ammo. The stuff headstamped CJ 93 was stellar. The stuff stamped CJ 95 was no better than the hurt. I can't remember off hand what the 3rd lot was stamped, it it was on par with the CJ 95.

The Chinese stuff is just as reliable as anything else out there, but it's getting pretty hard to find, or so it seems. It is "light years" better than MFS ammo....

John
 
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