History of PMags in Canada for a beginner.
- Thread starter ajayofcanada
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And we sell Full Auto Hammers and other parts as well... but we do not and cannot sell the Auto Sear because it is NOT part of a semi-auto gun and is not sold with semi-auto guns and it is specifically considered by CFC, RCMP and CBSA as a Prohibited Device.
Please show me where you are seeing the Auto Sear being sold commercially in Canada? Are you saying you have one? Be careful how you answer that
Again... I'm not arguing the law (with you or anyone else) I'm simply passing on to you and others the information we have been given by authorities... believe what you want... it makes no difference to me.
Mark
Got this from the CC
Quote:
PART 4
PROHIBITED DEVICES
Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 9
1. Any electrical or mechanical device that is designed or adapted to operate the trigger mechanism of a semi-automatic firearm for the purpose of causing the firearm to discharge cartridges in rapid succession.
pretty vague if you ask me but then again the CC is so full of holes the QE II could sail thru some sections untouched I guess it all boils down to intent
Quote:
PART 4
PROHIBITED DEVICES
Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 9
1. Any electrical or mechanical device that is designed or adapted to operate the trigger mechanism of a semi-automatic firearm for the purpose of causing the firearm to discharge cartridges in rapid succession.
pretty vague if you ask me but then again the CC is so full of holes the QE II could sail thru some sections untouched I guess it all boils down to intent
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CC definitions
Quote "
PART 4
PROHIBITED DEVICES
Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 9
(4) A cartridge magazine described in subsection (1) that has been altered or re-manufactured so that it is not capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be, of the type for which it was originally designed is not a prohibited device as prescribed by that subsection if the modification to the magazine cannot be easily removed and the magazine cannot be easily further altered so that it is so capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be.
(5) For the purposes of subsection (4), altering or re-manufacturing a cartridge magazine includes
(a) the indentation of its casing by forging, casting, swaging or impressing;
(b) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a steel or aluminum casing, the insertion and attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or aluminum, as the case may be, or of a similar material, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method; or
(c) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a casing made of a material other than steel or aluminum, the attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or of a material similar to that of the magazine casing, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method or by applying a permanent adhesive substance, such as a cement or an epoxy or other glue
I think Part 4 section 5:Sub section C pretty much sums up what Wes and others have been saying about internal blocks
Quote "
PART 4
PROHIBITED DEVICES
Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 9
(4) A cartridge magazine described in subsection (1) that has been altered or re-manufactured so that it is not capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be, of the type for which it was originally designed is not a prohibited device as prescribed by that subsection if the modification to the magazine cannot be easily removed and the magazine cannot be easily further altered so that it is so capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be.
(5) For the purposes of subsection (4), altering or re-manufacturing a cartridge magazine includes
(a) the indentation of its casing by forging, casting, swaging or impressing;
(b) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a steel or aluminum casing, the insertion and attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or aluminum, as the case may be, or of a similar material, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method; or
(c) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a casing made of a material other than steel or aluminum, the attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or of a material similar to that of the magazine casing, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method or by applying a permanent adhesive substance, such as a cement or an epoxy or other glue
I think Part 4 section 5:Sub section C pretty much sums up what Wes and others have been saying about internal blocks
I'll find (eventually) the other items that relate to this... but for the moment here is the specific section of the Criminal Code that applies to the importation of these components (ie: The Auto Sear)...
The auto sear is designed exclusively for use in the manufacture/assembly of automatic firearms... it has no other purpose.
Export and Import Offences
Importing or exporting knowing it is unauthorized
103. (1) Every person commits an offence who imports or exports
(a) a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition, or
(b) any component or part designed exclusively for use in the manufacture of or assembly into an automatic firearm,
knowing that the person is not authorized to do so under the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under an Act of Parliament.
Unauthorized importing or exporting
104. (1) Every person commits an offence who imports or exports
(a) a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition, or
(b) any component or part designed exclusively for use in the manufacture of or assembly into an automatic firearm,
otherwise than under the authority of the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under an Act of Parliament.
Importing or exporting knowing it is unauthorized
103. (1) Every person commits an offence who imports or exports
(a) a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition, or
(b) any component or part designed exclusively for use in the manufacture of or assembly into an automatic firearm,
knowing that the person is not authorized to do so under the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under an Act of Parliament.
Unauthorized importing or exporting
104. (1) Every person commits an offence who imports or exports
(a) a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition, or
(b) any component or part designed exclusively for use in the manufacture of or assembly into an automatic firearm,
otherwise than under the authority of the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under an Act of Parliament.
The auto sear is designed exclusively for use in the manufacture/assembly of automatic firearms... it has no other purpose.
sorry mark but the FA bolt carrier would fall under the same law... it is designed EXCLUSIVLY for the m16 rifle..... plain and simple, that it also works in the ar15 is a moot point. the USA even declared that any rifle with one was considered a machine gun (until the last few years). Take for example the M16 hammer as well which according to your lawyers interpretation would also be covered, since the hammer has the extra hook it is identifiable as an M16 Part... without it the full auto feature is useless.... same as the carrier.
hell I think even the trigger is different because the Tail is longer....
I think you better go talk to your lawyers some more... because without that carrier/trigger assembly the gun will not work..... that carrier is designed to trip the autosear. where as a carrier for the ar15 is not.
I don't keep "questionable" stuff, but nice comment about "how I should answer this"..... thqat kindof irk's me you throwing that in there.
the main thing we have to read is this...
"any component or part designed exclusively for use in the manufacture of or assembly into an automatic firearm"
to me that covers all parts made and desitgned exclusivly for the M16, that they also fit in the ar15 is moot..... from the picture below there is very marked difference between ar15/m16 parts and according to your interpretation they would all be prohibited. Unless of course you could prove in a court oflaw that the full auto parts where designed and intended for the ar15 platform
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AR-15 vs m16 makes no difference from a legal perspective. FA/SA is the issue.
That is where the "designed exclusively for use in the manufacture of or assembly into an automatic firearm," part comes into play. Seams pretty clear cut to me.
As to which parts are designed exclusively for use in an automatic firearm, I have no idea. Does anyone have Stoner on record about that?
That is where the "designed exclusively for use in the manufacture of or assembly into an automatic firearm," part comes into play. Seams pretty clear cut to me.
As to which parts are designed exclusively for use in an automatic firearm, I have no idea. Does anyone have Stoner on record about that?
sorry. lawyers and "authorities" got mixed up.... but the main point I have is where is the line drawn, you quote the law which is fine, but the law says any part designed to make a firearm full auto.... ALL m16 parts are needed for the system to work, from the carrier to the trigger, so if you want to interpret it word for word then it is all prohibited.
Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
Westicle, what is the point of this public debate. Mark is correct, he is quoting from the CC (Criminal Code) OIC (Orders In Council) have also been quoted, they are different, it is a confusing mess that has to be looked at in total.
To publicly accuse people in selling prohibited parts is stupid, we have enough problems with importing and selling firearms legitimately with out having our customers telling us that what we are doing is outside the law, you are as good as asking our authorities to take a fresh look at some areas.
I find it amusing that people here still quote the Policy Advisory Guide lines on reducing mag capacity as law. THEY ARE NOT, if they were it would be no problem when dealing with Canada Customs as we could all quote chapter and verse when a disagreement arose. POLICY ADVISERY GUIDE LINES are exactly what they say GUIDE LINES. The fact that some people may tell you they are law is irrelevant.
P MAGS: Magpul are simply not interested in pinning/blocking mags for us, if they were, we would have ordered 1000 a long time ago. We have no supplier in the US that will pin/ block mags for us and then export to us, therefore we concentrate our efforts in other areas.
PRICIN
It has been said before and I am sure it will be said again, if you don’t like the price don’t pay it. Supply and demand will always set a price. I have to smile when I see the asking price for some items and as soon as one person pays it then the bar is raised. There is no monopoly with P-mags so the price is set by what entrepreneurs can get for them.
To publicly accuse people in selling prohibited parts is stupid, we have enough problems with importing and selling firearms legitimately with out having our customers telling us that what we are doing is outside the law, you are as good as asking our authorities to take a fresh look at some areas.
I find it amusing that people here still quote the Policy Advisory Guide lines on reducing mag capacity as law. THEY ARE NOT, if they were it would be no problem when dealing with Canada Customs as we could all quote chapter and verse when a disagreement arose. POLICY ADVISERY GUIDE LINES are exactly what they say GUIDE LINES. The fact that some people may tell you they are law is irrelevant.
P MAGS: Magpul are simply not interested in pinning/blocking mags for us, if they were, we would have ordered 1000 a long time ago. We have no supplier in the US that will pin/ block mags for us and then export to us, therefore we concentrate our efforts in other areas.
PRICIN
It has been said before and I am sure it will be said again, if you don’t like the price don’t pay it. Supply and demand will always set a price. I have to smile when I see the asking price for some items and as soon as one person pays it then the bar is raised. There is no monopoly with P-mags so the price is set by what entrepreneurs can get for them.- Status
