Hitting your target at 1000yards...with irons...cool video

That's pretty cool.
The only rifle I'm even close to that good with is my M14.
I use 150gr FMJ then calibrate my sight elevation drum to 10 clicks from bottom zero to line up the 100 meter notch on the dial.
Then using the basic math equation I can actually hit a 3 foot square steel plate at 600 meters (max distance at my range) if it's fresh painted and visible.
Just a Norc M14 which I bedded an M1A stock into using Marine Tex.
 
That looks like a hoot! I need to get an adjustable rear sight for my Norc M14 and give that a try...the one that came with the gun merely looks adjustable. :)
 
jjohnwm said:
That looks like a hoot! I need to get an adjustable rear sight for my Norc M14 and give that a try...the one that came with the gun merely looks adjustable. :)
Click to expand...

The standard GI (and Norc) sight drums for the M14 are calibrated for 147gr FMJ Service Cartridge (C21 Ball in Canada which is also what we used in the FAL).
The math is simple. Calbrate the sight to be POI to POA at the 100 meter mark on the dial.
Then if you are engaging target at 200 you add two clicks up from the 100 meter mark, if you engage next at 300 meters then you add 3 clicks up from the 200 meter mark etc Reverse the math to drop back down or do a simple division by 2 for 50 meter increments in between.
It's very effective. One of the all time best sights ever put on a rifle. I would argue though second only to the highly flexible and simple to use A2 irons placed on the AR15 before everyone went to lazer sights and red dot battery toys etc
 
Thanks for that simplified explanation; I have no experience with these sights, so this is appreciated. The original rear sight on my DA Socom is completely useless; inconsistent, unrepeatable and sometimes totally unmoveable. I've toyed with the idea of upgrading it, but it took the combination of this thread, that video and the EE WTS ad for National Match replacement sights to light a fire under my butt. I now have a new sight incoming. :)

Due to the shorter sight radius on my shortie M14 clone I assume that the clicks won't work as perfectly for 100, 200, etc. but I hope that I can get acceptable results. Any idea if I will need to change the front sight, or will the standard one work well enough?
 
jjohnwm said:
Thanks for that simplified explanation; I have no experience with these sights, so this is appreciated. The original rear sight on my DA Socom is completely useless; inconsistent, unrepeatable and sometimes totally unmoveable. I've toyed with the idea of upgrading it, but it took the combination of this thread, that video and the EE WTS ad for National Match replacement sights to light a fire under my butt. I now have a new sight incoming. :)

Due to the shorter sight radius on my shortie M14 clone I assume that the clicks won't work as perfectly for 100, 200, etc. but I hope that I can get acceptable results. Any idea if I will need to change the front sight, or will the standard one work well enough?
Click to expand...

Standard front sight will be fine but the front sight post MAY be too high (don't stress see below)
The barrel is only shorter by around 3" or so.
I wouldn't think that would throw out the balistics all that far. It's battle accuracy we're talking about here not tack driving precision. More important that you use a cartridge that is close to the original 7.62 Nato ball round ie 147gr FMJ.
This is what you do. Install your new rear sight. Get the ammunition you are going to use predominantly. Norinco surplus 7.62mm is pretty much bang on what your M14 was designed to shoot and will be calibrated to the dial very closely. There's also MFS 147gr FMJ around for cheap in bulk.

Put your rear sight at exactly 10 clicks up from bottomed out. Disregard the distance notches on the dial for now.
Shoot a 3 round group at exactly 100 meters. You will most likely be hitting the ground in front of the target but I've seen some Norcs that were actually not too far off.
If you are way low take a small flat file and file the front post down until you are bang on at 100 meters for elevation! Be sure to match the angle and keep it square at the rear of the front post. A little at a time. You can take metal away easy but adding it back is a #####! lol
Once you are POA to POI, then you need to unscrew the screw in the elevation dial to disengage the trunion inside from the aperture. Turn the dial so that the first hash mark (the one that has no numbers and is just under the "200" mark) is in line with the notch on rear sight assembly. Make sure when you do this that your aperture is NOT moving. If it is then back the screw out more. Once it's lined up then hold the dial firm in that spot and tighten the screw down.
You're now calibrated! :rockOn: Once you get good at the simple math you will be amazed at how efficient you are with the rifle. Of all the guns I've fired and owned over the years, I'm the best and have the most confidence in my M14 by far.
Test it out. It's amazing how well it works.
I would buy a crate of Norc Ammo 7.62mm It's about the closest thing I've found available in cheap bulk to the old school C21 FN FAL rounds/M59 US M14 Cartridges.
Let me know if you need any more help. Will be glad to guide you through anything.
 
M80 ball (Federal XM80) is also pretty much what the sight markings were calibrated for. I jump back and forth between loads, bulk 147-150 grn and my 168grn reloads so I just count clicks and nevermind what the drum says. FMJ stuff, my 100 yd zero is 14 clicks up. My 168's are 8 clicks up. I think.
 
dahs said:
M80 ball (Federal XM80) is also pretty much what the sight markings were calibrated for. I jump back and forth between loads, bulk 147-150 grn and my 168grn reloads so I just count clicks and nevermind what the drum says. FMJ stuff, my 100 yd zero is 14 clicks up. My 168's are 8 clicks up. I think.
Click to expand...

Yes I'm the same. Except I only shoot Norc 7.62mm Ball.
My dial and sight assembly is an actual NM Springfield Assy. Most Norc front posts are very tall. Before I tuned mine I had 28 clicks from bottom to get on paper at 100 meter (!!) So I had to file it down and just filed it to POA at 10 clicks from bottom.
The elevation gradients on the dial don't match up exactly when I do the "click" math and apply it to the dial either.
They are actually very close but not exact when I test it on paper for POI. Doing the click math makes it much more accurate.
I don't pay attention to the marks on the dial but I do like to know that if I need to get back to square one right quick I can do that by simply turning the dial back down to the "100" line then I know I'm back at 100 meters on etc Or if I can't see or I'm fumbling etc I can bottom the dial out and then just physically count 10 clicks up without even looking at the dial.
Great sights on the M14 man, great sights!
 
Thanks for the info, TB, as well as the offer for more of same...I suspect I'll be posting with more questions once I receive my sight and install it. My barrel is indeed only 3.5 inches shorter, but with the gaslock sight I lose another inch or two of sight radius. Time will tell.
 
jjohnwm said:
Thanks for the info, TB, as well as the offer for more of same...I suspect I'll be posting with more questions once I receive my sight and install it. My barrel is indeed only 3.5 inches shorter, but with the gaslock sight I lose another inch or two of sight radius. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Should be interesting. I wouldn't think at ranges out to less than 500 meters you will see too much variation. Not enough to make you miss a 3 ft square anyhow.
I almost jumped on the 18.5" ers when they came out but I'm too old fashioned and crusty lol

Let me know if you need any help with anything re the M14. It can be a money pit. You can throw $2K at it to "improve" it but any tangible improvements would have stopped $1500 before you hit that mark if you get what I'm saying.
It's one of the simplest rifles to do any work on. I've had it completely stripped down. Even successfully bedded my M1A stock in it which was one of the most nail biting experiences I ever undertook tinkering with a gun! Made glass bedding my 700 a cakewalk in comparison.
There's 71 parts aprox max every spring pin, nut and piece in it. Very simple, very great rifle and very easy to work on. Still one of my all time favorites after all this time.
 
Just got my National Match sight installed on my Dominion Arms Socom, and I can certainly see and feel the difference compared to the OEM sight. The tutorials on the internet made the installation seem unnecessarily complicated. Just examining the parts and using some common sense simplified things considerably.

Unfortunately, my front sight is very thick and coarse, making a precise sight picture difficult at much more than 200 yards or so. My targets, I now realize, are scaled more properly for magnified optics than for unaided vision. I need to get some larger, iron-sight friendly gongs. I shoot at my current targets regularly with the precision sighs on my C.Sharps rifle, but they are like scalpels compared to the battle-axe front post on my Socom.

This is turning into a major production...:)

Almost there...should be fun!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom