HK MR223 Question

GT - several entities have benched their Hk416's to issues.

Oddly its batches of guns (some 06 OTB guns, and 08) that are having issues, accuracy and bolt issues.

I'm not trashing a competitor, just relating info.


That said I would have no issues taking a Hk416 into harms way, it would just not be my first choice.
 
suprathepeg,

Swiss Arms = late 1980's design, adopted in 1990, a bit newer than early 1960's AR15.
Please elaborate on bolt issues, lets focus on the SG550 and SG551 (Leave out the 552 that has had Bolt Carrier issues only, not bolt issues).
I've never heard of any bolt issues with a 550 or 551, going to call bullxxit on this one.
The German's GSG-9 has been using the SG551 for a couple of decades and I think it's been proven a bit more than you give it credit for.

I agree that the G36 isn't much lighter (if at all) and should be with the use of polymers, but the extra weight in the gas system isn't much it weighs next to nothing.

I think the SCAR and 416 will be proven very soon (more every day now). Anyone who says the 416 isn't that great might not have enough experience with them. I think some of their issues show up very late in their life cycles, usually when M4's have had major depot level service or are done.

Kevin B might be able to shed some light on Iraqi Swat using the SG551 as long as we can keep him away from talking about the SG552 bolt carriers.

Rich
 
RE: the sig, I agree. Nice rifle but heavy and not in overly wide use. You will find Tac teams and Elite forces still using the M14. Just cause a limited number of people use it and are happy doesn't make it practical on a large scale. Please don't tell me about the Swiss military and police using it cause they really don't have much of a choice.

G36- they used a lot of material in the receiver as well as a high percentage of reinforcing materials, so the weight savings is minimal yes. The real nice thing about the polymer IMHO as least is the reduced heat transfer. So you can use it in the cold and hot weather with little discomfort. Still a very nice rifle and if the charging handle layout was different I'd say its the best of the bunch.

SCAR is in its infancy, I hope it does well as there are some very nice features.

The question is how much better then the M16FOW are they? And sadly how much more expensive when in a similar configuration?

From what has been said the 416/223 and HK's mags are being abandoned by those who can choose. Nice rifle but I'll never own one cause for 1/4 the price I can get an AR which will likely never see enough use to show its flaws anyhow. From a personal perspective the money saved is ammo down range, militaries are likely thinking the same thing. When it comes to fielding any system on a large scale the reality is that factors other then the platform itself come into play like trg, platform cost, current accessories in service etc. Those who make the decision have to consider all those factor and weigh what choice is best. Sometimes the simple fact that X upgrade isn't in the budget is a real and determining factor whether we like it or not.
 
Actually Rich - we had some bolt issues too ;)

The 551 - I think BigRed saw a broken charging handle once, I like them, but they are heavy... The unit that had them swapped their 551's for M4A1's, as the 551 was not compatible for the Sound Suppressors and Night Fighting gear that are force multipliers in the modern age.

I think their are plenty of systems out there that have the potential to better than the M16FOW, however price tag of the coating, and materials used to design them are prohibitive in a general issue weapon.

The G36 system was a low cost gun forced on the German Army due to the costs with reunification. Its done abysimally in any external military testing.
Heck for a while you could see KSK running around Afghan with Diemaco C8SFW's... Until Tuetonic National Pride made the Hk416 a necessity.


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