HK MR223s on order for Canada
- Thread starter cancer
- Start date
So are you saying you want to make life-partner relationship with that guy named Trevor you meet the first day of boot?
Woops! I just looked it up, apparently its Tavor, don't ask me why I thought it was Trevor.
Dimitri
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
Which would matter if I was in the special forces. Bullpups don't really make any sense for target shooting as they have crappy trigger pulls, one and all. The SA80 is an accurate rifle because it has a bull barrel on it but the trigger pull is hopeless. I can do better with an FA MAS because at least the trigger is more controllable, but for target shooting with a semi-auto .223 the AR-15 is the rifle to have. The only possible exception to that rule is the Swiss Arms PE90. And even then, you can outshoot a PE90 with an AR-15 if you get one of the top-end ARs made specifically for target shooting.
I never really understand why people go on about reliability and all the rest of it, I shoot maybe 200 rounds max using ten round mags (max) in a range session, and I don't do it in bad weather or underwater. I'm interested in accuracy, and that includes a decent trigger pull and long sight radius.
The one comment that always amuses me is when chairborne commandos at the range tell me not to rest the magazine on the ground because it will "cause malfunctions". I don't care if it causes malfunctions, there is no-one shooting back at me! I want the rifle to be stable, thanks.
Whoooaahh hang on there buddy... The PE90 is out of the box vs a Top end Target AR?. Compare apples to apples and oranges to Oranges.
There are PE90/550 that are designed for target ...wanna compare that instead?
Because some of us do shoot in winter, in the rain, in mud, and in blowing dust - for fun. The fun is a lot better when our guns work right. There's nothing like spending time and money getting ready for a match only to have a gun fail and blow the score. Some types of shooting don't allow for range alibis, which means that the gun system needs to work first time every time.
I don't find the trigger to be bad at all on the Tavor. Anyone else find the trigger pull on the Tavor to be ok. Maybe a bit heavy but I don't find it to be inconsistant or shoddy.
I really want to know why won't your just shoot "target rifle" in a rainbow jacket, if all you care about is trigger and accuracy. People who shoot the black rifles ......kinda like people who practise with the katana and the stick. you don't buy one of these jut to cut water melons in the park to look cool. If you want to cut water melon, there are knives at the local walmart that are designed to cut water melona. Granted, you have the right to cut water melons with your 3 thousand dollars katana, and no one really cares - but don't tell people who practise the "art" of sword they are stupid because they don't use their katana to cut water melons...
Not really - the swiss arms retails at 2900 while a typical AR costs roughly half of it.
And the Swiss arms weights like a target rifle........if I have to haul the weight of 9lb, I can get a 18" SPR that comes with KAC FF rail already plus all the BUIS gadgets. ANd a 18" SPR can be built at the same price!
Seeing how some rack grade 20" ar perform, I do "feel" that a rack grade AR can keep up quite closely with the swiss arms, if they are both fired from machine rest with the same match ammo. The M16 spec is influenced by the spec of the M855. So ammo might be the limiting factor.
After saying that, those swiss arms do have their ### appeal....I have and have had pretty much every model being imported. And I am going to buy more if TSE will import some other configurations.
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Well GT in Canada PE90 retails at 2900 vs a $1500 AR. In Switzerland its a different ball game again, so your argument is not fair and well balanced. AR's are as expensive as a PE90 and sometimes more in CH. You can ask Kampfhamster.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
If you spend $3,000 on an AR-15 you will have a top-end AR-15 that will outshoot a PE90. No question. As long as you've focused on getting a decent barrel and trigger pull, rather than wasting it on goofy accessories that have no bearing on accuracy.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
It's exactly the same equation, the PE90 sells for roughly the same price, the current retail price is 3,000 CHF. AR-15s do cost more because of the shipping and of course they have the same problem with export licenses too, but it's not that much different.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
Dream on.... I've got a Swiss Arms Sniper. Nice rifle, yes, accurate yes... outshoots anything? No way in hell. My JP Enterprises AR-15 is definitely more accurate. Any number of companies that make AR-15s for CMP will be more accurate than the Swiss Arms Sniper.
Plus you can use longer bullets in them because the Sniper has a 1/10 twist.
The reason why is because they are made for target shooting where super duper reliability is not as important.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
"Only accurate rifles are interesting." - Townsend Whelen
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
I appreciate what you're saying, the point I was really making is that we use our guns on ranges primarily and you have to with the AR-15. Generally don't go dragging them through rivers and mud. I'm not saying I like rifles that jam on every shot, what I'm saying is that if they jam once every 50 rounds or so it doesn't really matter.
Hey, if you do go dragging them through rivers and mud, more power to you, maybe you should look at getting a Tavor or whatever. But I don't and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of civilian shooters don't.
I'm a target shooter, I make no apology for that. For target shooting, the AR-15 or the PE90 are the way to go, which was the original point I was making. I'm sure the MR223 is a nice rifle, but it doesn't really have any advantage over a normal AR-15 as far as target shooting goes, except that it might be easier to keep clean. Really the market for them in Canada is that it would be a collector's item.
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Well thanks Cyber, you just came back to the same place we started with GT. My comment was meant to show that cheaper rifle plus $$$ added does not apply to qualify a rifle being better than another if you want to level the playing field. BTW you can find cheap 2nd hand PE90's for $1900 CHF or lower that are in great shape too
So we're back to square one.Sorry to burst your bubble in your massive reply thingy,
BUT, I am not talking about a swiss arms wannabe sniper, i am talking about a REAL SIG 550-1 sniper with the 1 in 7 the sweet trigger and the Gruyere cheeze assembly ! That is NOT the same thing. I have fired a JP and a 550-1 sniper... and i would still put my horse on the 550...
You probably meant: Cant use heavier bullet in the 1-10 ...
Lenght has nothing to do with it...77 gr fits in the chamber no problems but is too heavy. ...69 gr in the PE 90 is very accurate and stupid accurate in the 550-1.
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