HK P7, No extractor? No problem!

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ronm4c

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I learned the hard way that you have to be picky about choosing what ammo to put in your gun. I had purchased a box of Blazer 9mm ammunition because it was the only thing left at the store. My P7 has never had any issue feeding/extracting/ejecting so I didn't think this would be any different. I got to the range to discover that the ammo had aluminum cases, no big deal, I loaded up a mag and basted away. About 5 shots in I had a jam, the shell failed to fully eject and had got caught in the ejection port. This has never happened with this gun.

It turns out that the aluminum cases were being expanded into the chamber fluting (the chamber on this gun is fluted). This happens with brass cases as well, but unlike the brass cases, the aluminum cases stay permanently deformed and are difficult to extract. So I decided, no big deal, I'll shoot off the last of the box and never buy it again. A couple mags and a couple FTFs later I noticed something wasn't right. I cleared the last FTF, made the gun safe and examined it only to find out that my extractor was missing. After a bit of searching around I found the extractor about 10 ft down range, and the detente pin was on the bench. Both were unscathed which was surprising, but unfortunately my missing extractor spring remains MIA.

The good news is that I was able to find some replacement parts, but its going to take a bit of time for them to come in. Soooo in the mean time I decided to do a little experimentation. I was aware of claims that the P7 can eject (brass) cases without the aide on an extractor. I made a little video just to prove that it is possible.

This is the first time I have posted a video, please let me know if it doesn't work. I also apologize for the crappy quality.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzC1gX4AGpCULWZlYTZyWFBNRHc/view?usp=sharing
 
I've seen it done - those guns are the most complex and at the same time coolest things. If I needed a defense gun, I'd hunt one down, unfortunately I have a habit of putting several hundred rounds down range in one day and the heat gets a little too much.
 
P7 are all 105mm, with head space measured as they should be to the breech face, legally 107. They are exactly right!
 
I've done the same with a waltherp99. While its not 100% reliable, in standard blowback pistol its the empty shell that pushes on the slide, the extractor is there as a backup and for manual ejecting
 
This is totally normal for a P7. it is how they were designed. The extractor is a redundancy. It's purpose is just to guarantee extraction in exceptional circumstances, and to guide extraction in a more consistent direction.

The pistol has a fluted chamber (to prevent the casing sticking in the chamber) and some of the gas from the gas-delayed blowback system actually flows in there and pops the casing out as soon as the action opens up. This is why the brass tend to have "tiger stripes" on them, and are actually a little blacker than with a standard Browning-type action.

The real issue is... what happened to pop out your extractor? I have been shooting P7's for a long time and I have 5 of them currently. I have done it twice in 10 years. Once was a case failure on reloaded nickle brass. Once was shooting a weird 95gr. load. Don't do this. Don't reload nickle brass, or any brass more than about twice. Don't use any "unusual" types of ammo.

The extractor is designed to pop out in an over-pressure situation. There is a little "blow hole" underneath the extractor, which leads in to the firing pin channel. It seems that, if there is too much pressure, it just pops the extractor out.

Normally I would think of Blazer Aluminum as being fine to shoot in a P7. Maybe I'm wrong in that though. I wouldn't, obviously, go back to shooting that ammo.

It's nice to see Elektrobug's old target P7 getting some use!

Btw, The extractor is simple to reassemble. You just line up the spring, the plunger and the extractor, and push it in with your thumb. You will hear it "click" in. It is a lot harder to get out than to get it.
 
I just got back from Elektro's place. He was very helpful in getting the whole issue sorted out. The man is a genius when it comes to the P7. I think the issue was either the extractor having too much force put put on it from the cases deforming into the fluting, or when one of the cases got jammed in the ejection port while the slide was actuating. It closed on the case with all of the force being put on the extractor. I've learned my lesson, no more aluminum case ammo!
 
ghostie said:
This is totally normal for a P7. it is how they were designed. The extractor is a redundancy. It's purpose is just to guarantee extraction in exceptional circumstances, and to guide extraction in a more consistent direction.

The pistol has a fluted chamber (to prevent the casing sticking in the chamber) and some of the gas from the gas-delayed blowback system actually flows in there and pops the casing out as soon as the action opens up. This is why the brass tend to have "tiger stripes" on them, and are actually a little blacker than with a standard Browning-type action.

The real issue is... what happened to pop out your extractor? I have been shooting P7's for a long time and I have 5 of them currently. I have done it twice in 10 years. Once was a case failure on reloaded nickle brass. Once was shooting a weird 95gr. load. Don't do this. Don't reload nickle brass, or any brass more than about twice. Don't use any "unusual" types of ammo.

The extractor is designed to pop out in an over-pressure situation. There is a little "blow hole" underneath the extractor, which leads in to the firing pin channel. It seems that, if there is too much pressure, it just pops the extractor out.

Normally I would think of Blazer Aluminum as being fine to shoot in a P7. Maybe I'm wrong in that though. I wouldn't, obviously, go back to shooting that ammo.

It's nice to see Elektrobug's old target P7 getting some use!

Btw, The extractor is simple to reassemble. You just line up the spring, the plunger and the extractor, and push it in with your thumb. You will hear it "click" in. It is a lot harder to get out than to get it.
Click to expand...

Was that the Federal 95 grain JSP load, by any chance? I shot some of those in the late 80's and weird is exactly the word I'd use to describe them - they had a vaguely phosphorescent cloud of greenish smoke when fired, and were very loud, but had very little kick.
 
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It's best to stay away from aluminum cased ammo on HK fluted chamber guns like P7 and P9s.

That hole under the extractor is there for its removal, with a corresponding hole under the slide into which a 2.4mm punch can be inserted once the firing pin is removed. There is a special HK P7 extractor removal tool (that costs hundreds of $) that is inserted into dissasembly port in front of the extractor to press in the detent but a 1.4mm punch will do the same job. So with two punches a 1.4mm and a 2.4mm you can remove the extractor, it just slides out when you apply a little pressure.
 
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Thanks for that, and I have never seen one of these guns longer than 107 mm, Custom ????
elektrobug said:
It's best to stay away from aluminum cased ammo on HK fluted chamber guns like P7 and P9s.

That hole under the extractor is there for its removal, with a corresponding hole under the slide into which a 2.4mm punch can be inserted once the firing pin is removed. There is a special HK P7 extractor removal tool (that costs hundreds of $) that is inserted into dissasembly port in front of the extractor to press in the detent but a 1.4mm punch will do the same job. So with two punches a 1.4mm and a 2.4mm you can remove the extractor, it just slides out when you apply a little pressure.
Click to expand...
 
It is a factory made sport model of a P7M13. I have never seen another one like it and it shoots like a dream.
 
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