hold on a 400 yard zero

JTF#

JTF#

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I took my 98 mauser (8mm) out to shoot yesterday but I could only get on the 50/25 yard range. it has the rollercoster sight with the 400 yard zero. after seeing my shots go high I aimed at the ground below the target frame and when I inspected the area I found the round just skimmed along the top of the target framing so that's about 5 and a half feet from the ground to there. so pretty much 50 yard shots are out of the question.
my question is were should I be aiming at the 100,200,300 yard targets? the gun looks like its shooting strait so were should my hold be at the different ranges?
 
Since the 400 yard setting is the lowest you have, I suggest you find a taller front sight. Both the front and rear sight must be the same height above the center of the bore. Using a caliper, measure the diameter of the barrel at the rear sight and divide by two, which will provide you with the radius of the barrel, now add the height of the rear sight above the barrel, add it to the radius of the barrel, and you have the height of the rear sight above the center of the bore. Next is to find the height of the front sight above the center of the bore, so measure the diameter of the barrel at the front sight and divide by 2, then add the height of the front sight to that radius. The difference between the height of the rear sight and the height of the front sight is the amount of correction you need, which must then be added to the height of the front sight that you already have.
 
thanks for all the info but I really don't want to change the front sight because the gun is very rare I want to keep it original.
 
JTF# said:
thanks for all the info but I really don't want to change the front sight because the gun is very rare I want to keep it original.
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The best plan for yourself is get enough ammunition for a good day at the range. Have one or two friends spot all your shots for you from a good rested/supported position.
Bring something to record your results, either cell phone pics with notes, or just a pen and notebook to keep track of everything you do and your end results.
Ensure to bring ballisitcally identical ammo, 8x57mm Mauser is so different across the board, adding in surplus of differing bullet weights and factory ammunition too.
Asking strangers on the internet where your rifle should print at X distance with mystery ammo is at the best, only half measures.

Without swapping out the front sight, this is about your only reasonable recourse.

my 2 bits
 
If you are going to be shooting it and trying to zero it, do as Boomer said.

If you are unwilling to change the front sight than just admire in your hands or accept the high striking rounds. If your rifle is shooting 68" high at 50 yards I'm guessing you have much further than a 400 yard zero.

You have a 1800 yard zero with 196gr FMJBT at 2500 fps.
 
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OP, Without actually knowing how you use your sights that is a difficult question to answer.

I have seen a lot of shooters with their first milsurp that has tangential barrel mounted rear sight and barley corn front sight not using them properly.

The Lange style roller coaster rear sight is a very good one as is the barley corn front sight. Many people don't center the top tip of the front sight in the rear inverted V with the top of the sight level with straight top of the rear sight. for some reason they use high side walls of the rear sight frame as their guide.

Also, is your rear sight all the way to the bottom?

Your rifle should be sighted in from the factory for a 300 yard point of impact.

To get such a point of impact as you describe it wouldn't matter how high your front sight is. You would need to be using a reference point about a foot back along the barrel.

Is your barrel straight??? Sounds crazy but it wouldn't be the first time.
 
bearhunter said:
OP, Without actually knowing how you use your sights that is a difficult question to answer.

I have seen a lot of shooters with their first milsurp that has tangential barrel mounted rear sight and barley corn front sight not using them properly.

The Lange style roller coaster rear sight is a very good one as is the barley corn front sight. Many people don't center the top tip of the front sight in the rear inverted V with the top of the sight level with straight top of the rear sight. for some reason they use high side walls of the rear sight frame as their guide.

Also, is your rear sight all the way to the bottom?

Your rifle should be sighted in from the factory for a 300 yard point of impact.

To get such a point of impact as you describe it wouldn't matter how high your front sight is. You would need to be using a reference point about a foot back along the barrel.

Is your barrel straight??? Sounds crazy but it wouldn't be the first time.
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I think you're onto something here. If a course sight is taken without dropping the front sight down into the rear sight, that would account for a high impact. Rifle barrels were trued by bending them in a press to ensure straightness, and this one might have been missed. If the sight height is measured as I described above, and the heights are reasonably close, barrel straightness comes into question.
 
Boomer said:
I think you're onto something here. If a course sight is taken without dropping the front sight down into the rear sight, that would account for a high impact. Rifle barrels were trued by bending them in a press to ensure straightness, and this one might have been missed. If the sight height is measured as I described above, and the heights are reasonably close, barrel straightness comes into question.
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A high impact with that coarse sight picture of maybe 6-8" at 50 yards if the rifle was zeroed at 50yds with a patridge sight picture. He's striking 68" high at 50 yards!!! That's zeroed for 1800 yards. His sights must be almost all the way up un the rear and his cheek 4 or 5 " up from the stock itself.
 
it is possible someone else shot the top of the beam that day. I didn't check it when I put up my target but it for sure was no place on the target or the backing we use that is about 2 feet by 2 feet. i'll try and get some more shots in and see if I can get some help on were they land for sure. but lets say the gun is right on 400. the farthest target we have is 300. how far will the bullet drop or rise at that range? I am using dominion 170 psp.
 
RememberTheSomme said:
You have a 1800 yard zero with 196gr FMJBT at 2500 fps.
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At 1 yard he should be spot on. Something is wrong with that angle.

JTF# said:
my question is were should I be aiming at the 100,200,300 yard targets? the gun looks like its shooting strait so were should my hold be at the different ranges?
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You shouldn't be firing it at all. Aboot 10 yards high at 300 yards. Not really safe to be that inaccurate.

It there visible damage to the barrel?
 
JTF# said:
it is possible someone else shot the top of the beam that day. I didn't check it when I put up my target but it for sure was no place on the target or the backing we use that is about 2 feet by 2 feet. i'll try and get some more shots in and see if I can get some help on were they land for sure. but lets say the gun is right on 400. the farthest target we have is 300. how far will the bullet drop or rise at that range? I am using dominion 170 psp.
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One more question as this happens a lot with newbies that have only used scoped rifles. Are you using both the rear and front sight together???
 
Just as a point of comparison, I want to shoot my target rifle out to a mile with 230 gr Bergers at 2500. My 100 yard impact with a 1760 zero is about 80" high, and at 50 yards its less than 40". So if a bullet of similar velocity prints 60"+ high at 50 yards, we would multiply my trajectory figures by a factor of 1.5, just to be ball park close. What the 8mm trajectory would look like is a bit more than 15' high at 100, 19.5' high at 200, 28.5' high at 300 and 36' high at 400. In other words, there is no practical way to hold for those types of errors. It would be very interesting to shoot over a large body of water in absolutely still conditions, aiming at the horizon, and watching for the splash. We could do it here, shooting out across Hudson Bay, but with that trajectory the folks in Northern Quebec might not be safe, they're less than 700 miles away.:eek:
 
5 feet high at 50 yards?? doesn't sound to me like the sights are original to the rifle, but without seeing it myself....
 
Sounds a bit like my old M95 Steyr in 8x56r when I first tried shooting it. I am going to guess the rifle is a Gewehr 98 (based on the 400m minimum setting and the Lange Vizier sight). My advice is to aim improperly, i.e. use the top of the front sight in the bottom of the rear sight (like aiming a Carcano), that should bring you down a fair bit and hopefully get you on at 100m. Otherwise my recommendation would be to take it out to the farthest distance possible for you (which you have said is 300m) and try aiming properly there with a big target, and seeing how it patterns.

With my Steyr M95 the solution at 100m was for me to aim at the very bottom of the target stand (not the bottom of the target) and that brought it dead center on the bulleye I was using, I also found out later I was using the 500m sight not the 300m sight on the ladder. Took a fair bit of ammo to do this though, and took a couple buddies telling me where my shots were hitting (i.e. high, high, not as high).

Hope this helps.
 
When you remove the original front sight and replace it with a workable [no historical value ]taller front sight you can file down to regulate ,what's the harm ? Simply put the original one away for safe keeping........JMO.....Harold
 
I own a Peruvian Mauser 1909 with a "Lange Visier" (roller coaster) sight.
The lowest setting is 400 meters, and it shoots 1.5- 2 feet high at 100m. These rifles were sighted to shoot at center mass of a human body from 50 to 400 meters and always hit.

There is no way your rifle shoots 5 1/2 feet high at 50 yards!
 
I have a turk mauser in 8mm that shot very similar to the one in question when I first got it. 4 feet high at 50 yards, didn't group too bad 3-4". I bought it very early on in my shooting career bore was very ratty so after scrubbing it lots I decided to shoot it. After 30 or 40 rounds i discovered this in the bore here's a picture notice the ring??



I just recently counterbored it and now it now shoots 6" hight at 100 yards.

My question is is the barrel bent or can you see a ring in it???

I've worked on 3 rifles thst had a similar problem to the one in question 2 had a slight curve to the barrel and the 3rd is the one I posted pics of. Check the barrel carefully, it may be a Longshot but never hurts to look.
 
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