Holding a IPSC match questions.

[JohnMc]

OK the rule book lists certified range officers as recommended for a level 1 match but not mandatory and the BB instructors that did the class up here said we would be GTG with appointed RO’s if we were to run a match. But reading IPSC Ontario it says that we have to use certified RO’s Yes/No? If we need RO’s will IPSC Ontario send use one or do we have to contact everyone on the list and hope one is willing to come?

Also there was some concern as to course design as we are all kind of new to IPSC is there any reason we could not just set up a couple of the ICS classifier stages and run it as a match?

 

[Musky Hunter]

For a sanctioned match you need to get it verified by the match comittee..

 

[Canuck223]

The other problem is, is your club affiliated with IPSC? You need to have 10 members first.

 

[badboybeeson]

The other problem is, is your club affiliated with IPSC? You need to have 10 members first.

bud said its down to 7 members.
Tryed to make it happen at my club but we know what happened there.....
bbb

 

[Canuck223]

bud said its down to 7 members.
Tryed to make it happen at my club but we know what happened there.....
bbb

I can understand the desire to avoid turning IPSC into a cash cow, but as far as club affiliation, isn't this a classic "chicken and egg" question?

I can't help but wonder how many more IPSC shooters and clubs would exist if IPSC-ONT could simply allow a provisional affiliation for a year while the club builds up members and learns how to hold and run a match.

 

[Quigley]

I can understand the desire to avoid turning IPSC into a cash cow, but as far as club affiliation, isn't this a classic "chicken and egg" question?

I can't help but wonder how many more IPSC shooters and clubs would exist if IPSC-ONT could simply allow a provisional affiliation for a year while the club builds up members and learns how to hold and run a match.

The requirements are minimal...

We don't burdon our members with policy for the sake of policy...in fact we do everything we can to help...but we can't leave it wide open (for obvious reasons)

If a club doesn't have 7 members...I doubt they have the volunteers they would need to pull off an organized sanctioned match.

JohnMc...I can be contacted by PM, email or telephone if you need additional info (my contact info is on the IPSC Ontario Website)

BBB...what happened in Lower Trent had nothing to do with IPSC Ontario.

Regards
Craig Stoklosar
IPSC Ontario

 

[JohnMc]

There are 10 + IPSC members at the range the match would be run at.

The 7-10 member thing is a bit of a Chicken and the egg thing.

There are 2 IPSC members in my club and 4-5 of the other clubs IPSC members live in town here. I could organize 7-10 IPSC members to support a match at my club but it will be some time before I could get 7-10 members at my club. This leaves me having to try and help run matches at the other club.

As Canuck mentions some kind of provisional membership would probably see a lot more clubs and shooters shooting IPSC. Maybe something like changing it so you need 7-10 IPSC members to sponsor a level 1 but they don’t need to be members of your club

 

[Quigley]

There are 10 + IPSC members at the range the match would be run at.

The 7-10 member thing is a bit of a Chicken and the egg thing.

There are 2 IPSC members in my club and 4-5 of the other clubs IPSC members live in town here. I could organize 7-10 IPSC members to support a match at my club but it will be some time before I could get 7-10 members at my club. This leaves me having to try and help run matches at the other club.

As Canuck mentions some kind of provisional membership would probably see a lot more clubs and shooters shooting IPSC. Maybe something like changing it so you need 7-10 IPSC members to sponsor a level 1 but they don’t need to be members of your club

I'm afraid that's not going to happen.

I appretiate that you're anxious to get things rolling...but the policy is in place for reason. Clubs that don't meet the minimums have tried Action Style shoots in the past (not sanctioned or supported by IPSC Ontario) but tried to promote them as IPSC Matches...and it was a complete mess (please note...I'm not reffering to the Tactical Matchesd that Pops and Reaper put on...they know the difference between Practical and Tactical )

I would also caution you about where you get your advice from...it doesn't hold much weight coming from non members.

As far as the "it ill be a long time before you get 7 members" That statement is shockingly similiar to that of a former GunNut that did action shoots in Peterborough. He didn't even try...gave up before he got started. I don't need to tell anyone what a difference a year or two makes...

Under new leadership, Peterborough does have affiliation...and something like 25 members. They are well on their way to becomeing one of the top clubs in Ontario (and I would bet a future host of the Provincial Championships)

You can disuss poultry until you;re blue in the face...but I'd suggest your time would be better spent talking to some fellow members that have already gone through the process. TAC and Second Wind run the show out at Peterborough and could provide you with some sound advice and great ideas...why not send them a PM.

 

[Bud45223]

My $.02 worth
IPSC Ontario does make to hard.. I HAD an IPSC black badge in pistol, another in rifle, a range officers card. I am a PAL instructor, a Wilderness Handgun Instructor and have been shooting IPSC in the USA for the past 3 years. I have to take a refresher course before I can rejoin IPSC Ontario. There is a strong need for safety but it should be balanced with common sense. Club affiliation has nothing to do with safety. How can 10 members be ok but not 9, how can 7 be ok but not 6? Just my thoughts.

 

[Quigley]

My $.02 worth
IPSC Ontario does make to hard.. I HAD an IPSC black badge in pistol, another in rifle, a range officers card. I am a PAL instructor, a Wilderness Handgun Instructor and have been shooting IPSC in the USA for the past 3 years. I have to take a refresher course before I can rejoin IPSC Ontario. There is a strong need for safety but it should be balanced with common sense. Club affiliation has nothing to do with safety. How can 10 members be ok but not 9, how can 7 be ok but not 6? Just my thoughts.

Minimums participation is not the the only criteria for affiliation...and yes it is all about safety.

The refresher course may seem remidial to you if you if you're well skilled in IPSC shooting...but we don't know that (nor will we untill you prove it )

I won't debate it...other than to say there is one set of rules for everybody.

Where did you get your origional BB? and please explain to me what a BB in Rifle is (it doens't exist anywhere in IPSC)

Being a PAL instrcutor and a wilderness handgun instrcutor is great...but it doens't have anything to do with the skills required to shoot IPSC. The refresher course is a simple "objective' process to ensure that you are safe and current with the rules.

Cheers

 

[Canuck223]

Where did you get your origional BB? and please explain to me what a BB in Rifle is (it doens't exist anywhere in IPSC)

I believe that Sharon used to issue a hat pin similar to the BB for people who completed the Practical Rifle Course, circa 1986-1995 or so?!

 

[Bud45223]

Got my black badge in Ontario. A black badge course in rifle was offered by IPSC Ontario, I have one. It looks the same as my other black badge. Guess they dropped it. I does not matter how great an IPSC shooter you are, all that matters is that you do it safely. I feel that two black badge courses, a range officers course, a PAL course, a Wilderness Handgun Course, many years teaching firearm safety, and 3 years shooting IPSC in the USA leaves me far from being the greatest IPSC shooter but it also leaves me knowing how to be safe. As for anyone else knowing that I am safe, I have the black badges, range officer certificate as well as the Instructor certificates from the PAL and Wilderness courses to prove it. Sorry forgot to mention the few years that I shot IPSC in Ontario. I will attend the refresher course.

 

[JohnMc]

Guiqley I know what you mean. There has to be active participation. But what I am getting at is just because you have 10 members don’t mean you have 10 active members. If all the old IPSC members in my club had bothered to send in there renewals and I had 10 members I could set up and run a match by myself as the only active member and this would be ok. As opposed to having 10 active members be it from 1,2 or 10 clubs come together and actively work and run a match.

As for taking time to get 7-10 members at may club. Well it is going to. Averaged age at my club would probably come out to 55. For years I was the only member under 30. All the old IPSC members are resisting the idea of redoing there BB and the BB course I went to in April was the first one held in this area I believe ever. The population for the county is listed as 65,000 for 1991 there are probably city blocks in places that have more people then my Town.

Also non of this is directed at anyone personally or at the IPSC organization this is just me thinking out loud and sharing my input as a new IPSC shooter trying to get the ball rolling here in the sticks.

 

[RePete]

Got my black badge in Ontario. A black badge course in rifle was offered by IPSC Ontario, I have one. It looks the same as my other black badge. Guess they dropped it. I does not matter how great an IPSC shooter you are, all that matters is that you do it safely. I feel that two black badge courses, a range officers course, a PAL course, a Wilderness Handgun Course, many years teaching firearm safety, and 3 years shooting IPSC in the USA leaves me far from being the greatest IPSC shooter but it also leaves me knowing how to be safe. As for anyone else knowing that I am safe, I have the black badges, range officer certificate as well as the Instructor certificates from the PAL and Wilderness courses to prove it. Sorry forgot to mention the few years that I shot IPSC in Ontario. I will attend the refresher course.

Having the q's doesn't mean you are safe, unless it is proven to me. But I assume that you are, until proven otherwise.

I'm BB q'd, IPSC RO and I'm a PPC instructor, along with other q's.

RePete.

 

[Quigley]

I believe that Sharon used to issue a hat pin similar to the BB for people who completed the Practical Rifle Course, circa 1986-1995 or so?!

Interesting...

As it stands now...under tournamnet rules...anyone who is BB certified can shoot 3 gun.

It's not eactly alive and well...but it is catching on.

EESA holds a big 3 gun every year...and we're encouraging rifle or shotgun side matches (like EOHC on July 15)

Cheers

 

[Quigley]

Got my black badge in Ontario. A black badge course in rifle was offered by IPSC Ontario, I have one. It looks the same as my other black badge. Guess they dropped it. I does not matter how great an IPSC shooter you are, all that matters is that you do it safely. I feel that two black badge courses, a range officers course, a PAL course, a Wilderness Handgun Course, many years teaching firearm safety, and 3 years shooting IPSC in the USA leaves me far from being the greatest IPSC shooter but it also leaves me knowing how to be safe. As for anyone else knowing that I am safe, I have the black badges, range officer certificate as well as the Instructor certificates from the PAL and Wilderness courses to prove it. Sorry forgot to mention the few years that I shot IPSC in Ontario. I will attend the refresher course.

Honestly...with the changes to the rule book every year...it doesn't take long to lose track of the rules...

I'm sure you'll breeze through the refresher...and welcome back

 

[Bud45223]

Quigley-Thank you for the welcome back it is appreciated.

RePete-Don,t mind proving I can do it safely, and if I am wrong I WANT to be corrected. It is the additional expense that I am concerned about. I expect to enjoy redoing the course.

 

[badboybeeson]

The requirements are minimal...
)

BBB...what happened in Lower Trent had nothing to do with IPSC Ontario.

Regards
Craig Stoklosar
IPSC Ontario

i did,nt say it did.
Its the members that are against the idea.
bbb

 

[Quigley]

i did,nt say it did.
Its the members that are against the idea.
bbb

Well time will tell...

It is a tough sell for clubs that are not familiar with the sport...

Where are you shooting these days?

Cheers

 

[JohnMc]

This is part of the problem with the shooting sports the in fighting. My club went through a phase of shunning young members. Telling a young guy that is looking for a place to shot a Glock that he should buy a 2G Olympic air pistol and shot that is not going to get you any young people. Funny thing is that most of these same people that didn’t like the young kids because of there 9mm pistols and like for SKS’s and AR 15’s all had stories about when they where young like ground hog hunting with a FA Sten gun. Another problem is IPSC has this secret society atmosphere to it. IPSC almost seems to be hiding even from other shooters. A lot of people have a wrong idea of IPSC think its “combat” shooting how may people have heard the white target brown target thing from non IPSC shooters. IPSC needs some PR.