I bought my first lever gun a few weeks ago (Rossi M92 44 mag), but I haven't had the chance to shoot it yet. I have some 44 Special loads with 180 gr Hornady XTP hollow points loaded up. Are these bullets going to be safe to use in a tubular magazine? There is no exposed lead on the tips, just jacket metal, so they are kind of "sharp" around the hollow point. There isn't a lot of recoil to these loads to begin with, but it's a question that I've thought about. I've got some cast bullets on order, but I haven't received them yet, and I'd like to shoot this little carbine soon.
Hollow Points in a Tube Mag.... dangerous?
- Thread starter Scott_N
- Start date
canucklehead
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Zero risk IMHO.
The risk comes with using pointed ammunition in a tubular magazine. Sharp edges around the outside edge of a hollow point won't be putting pressure on the primer where it needs to be struck.
I wouldn't worry about it.
I wouldn't worry about it.
Canadian_Zuk
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Pickering, Ontario
I had a marlin 44mag lever gun and fed it a constant diet of hot hornady 240gr XTP and 225gr FTX loads. No issues at all, with either. 23.5 grains of H110 under the 240gr XTP was my pet load.
oh boy!
critter928
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- in interesting times
You are fine unless you try and shoot into space.
The extra pressure from the tube being vertical will create a chain reaction and turn your tubular magazine into a .44 cal grenade.
Incidentally, a .44 cal grenade is the minimum size suitable for bear defence.
The extra pressure from the tube being vertical will create a chain reaction and turn your tubular magazine into a .44 cal grenade.
Incidentally, a .44 cal grenade is the minimum size suitable for bear defence.
Shooter1of38
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Try telling that to the wife & kids of the young man from Red Deer 15 or 20 yrs ago who was drug out of a hunting bush by his heels. My dad & I came along just as the LEO's were finishing up at the site north of Tees AB. One of the RCMP told us it apeared that a round had detonated in the mag of his Winchester and splinters from the front stock had ripped his wrist apart and he bleed out in the bush.
As well , when the Henry/Win. were issued during the civil war, they worked fine with the rimfire ammo they were chambered for at the time. Shortly after the war, center fire ammo became the new cat in town and both Winchester and Marlin submitted their latest inventions for Military tests in hope of landing a small arms contract. Both trials were suspended for the same reason, magazine explosions. Marlin re-submited at a later date again and was rejected again for the same reason. No other lever guns were allowed at thier trials until Winchester came up with the box fed mod 95 (but by then they had chosen the Krag to replace the trapdoor).
The ammo used way back then was significantly less powerful than a modern .44 mag but I guess its up to each person how much they want to test fait...I don't.
Well that must've been a first, as I don't recal reading of any documented cases save the ones (ironically) using FLAT nosed hard cast bullets! Do some research. The military did test this out in be 1800s and again, it was flat nosed bullets that did it.
Again remember that a mag tube is no barrel. Hence no pressure. So ill let you come to your own conclusions as to how it can "explode" and take a wrist with it.
Meanwhile, here's a little nugget I found:
In the 2002 issue of Gun Digest there is an article that explored this very point (no pun intended). In brief this is what is described. The author placed a primed .30-30 case in a vise and struck a softpointed bullet held in blacksmith tongs against the primer. It took five hammer blows to set it off, after the lead tip had been wiped away. Then he rigged a length of magazine tube that held three rounds to fire the rearmost round. The total result was a ruptured case, some unburnt powder and a bit of soot. Also the bullets of the two cartridges in front telescoped somewhat back into their cases. There was no damage whatsoever to the magazine tube. Thinking that the bullets had not actually been pressed against the primers, the author rigged up with cardboard and tape to make sure bullet tips were against the primers. The exact same result occurred.
As a test I myself fired soft pointed spitzers in a Winchester model 94 on a number of occasions with no damages as a result. That kind of finished the experiment.
Now a little bit of a lesson in interior ballistics to explain why the magazine tube in the article did not receive any damage nor could it. When a cartridge is fired in a firearm's chamber the powder burns causing expanding gases to form. Those gases seek a place to escape to. First the weak point found is the walls of the case itself which expand to fill the chamber. Once maximum expansion in the chamber is reached the gases seek for a new weak point to expand to. This weak point is represented by the bullet loaded in the case which is pushed down the bore by the expnding gases. When the cartridge is not enclosed in a chamber when it goes off the expanding gases will simply cause the case to burst before those gases build up sufficient pressure to do anything else. It is a similar case to a fire in a gun shop. The cartridges in their boxes merely burst and powder stored in its containers does the same. That is why powder containers are built the way they are, easily burst open. If they were kept in heavy duty containers they would merely be pipe bombs.
Or, if you prefer a different example, think of a balloon. When you blow it up and you continue past its break strength, it simply bursts.
So, yes, flying fool the story of pointed bullets exploding in the magazine tube and damaging the gun or the shooter is, indeed, a myth. I guess when pointed bullets were first developed, they looked at those pointy tips and assumed a dangerous condition would in effect be caused by shooting them in tubular magazines. I don't think anybody tested the theory and it was passed down from generation to generation as fact.
But, wait, someone did test the theory, in effect, in the nineteenth century. The French, who were the first to develop a smokeless powder round did so. The cartridge, called the 8mm Lebel, was stored in tubular magazines in the rifles, although the French excised a circular engravure around the primer pocket. What we know about the shape of the cartridge makes it very unlikely that these engravures had any effect whatsoever in keeping bullet points off primers. And no explosions took place.
I hope this has helped to enlighten you.
Again remember that a mag tube is no barrel. Hence no pressure. So ill let you come to your own conclusions as to how it can "explode" and take a wrist with it.
Meanwhile, here's a little nugget I found:
In the 2002 issue of Gun Digest there is an article that explored this very point (no pun intended). In brief this is what is described. The author placed a primed .30-30 case in a vise and struck a softpointed bullet held in blacksmith tongs against the primer. It took five hammer blows to set it off, after the lead tip had been wiped away. Then he rigged a length of magazine tube that held three rounds to fire the rearmost round. The total result was a ruptured case, some unburnt powder and a bit of soot. Also the bullets of the two cartridges in front telescoped somewhat back into their cases. There was no damage whatsoever to the magazine tube. Thinking that the bullets had not actually been pressed against the primers, the author rigged up with cardboard and tape to make sure bullet tips were against the primers. The exact same result occurred.
As a test I myself fired soft pointed spitzers in a Winchester model 94 on a number of occasions with no damages as a result. That kind of finished the experiment.
Now a little bit of a lesson in interior ballistics to explain why the magazine tube in the article did not receive any damage nor could it. When a cartridge is fired in a firearm's chamber the powder burns causing expanding gases to form. Those gases seek a place to escape to. First the weak point found is the walls of the case itself which expand to fill the chamber. Once maximum expansion in the chamber is reached the gases seek for a new weak point to expand to. This weak point is represented by the bullet loaded in the case which is pushed down the bore by the expnding gases. When the cartridge is not enclosed in a chamber when it goes off the expanding gases will simply cause the case to burst before those gases build up sufficient pressure to do anything else. It is a similar case to a fire in a gun shop. The cartridges in their boxes merely burst and powder stored in its containers does the same. That is why powder containers are built the way they are, easily burst open. If they were kept in heavy duty containers they would merely be pipe bombs.
Or, if you prefer a different example, think of a balloon. When you blow it up and you continue past its break strength, it simply bursts.
So, yes, flying fool the story of pointed bullets exploding in the magazine tube and damaging the gun or the shooter is, indeed, a myth. I guess when pointed bullets were first developed, they looked at those pointy tips and assumed a dangerous condition would in effect be caused by shooting them in tubular magazines. I don't think anybody tested the theory and it was passed down from generation to generation as fact.
But, wait, someone did test the theory, in effect, in the nineteenth century. The French, who were the first to develop a smokeless powder round did so. The cartridge, called the 8mm Lebel, was stored in tubular magazines in the rifles, although the French excised a circular engravure around the primer pocket. What we know about the shape of the cartridge makes it very unlikely that these engravures had any effect whatsoever in keeping bullet points off primers. And no explosions took place.
I hope this has helped to enlighten you.
