hollow points vs fmj for defence

XSlor said:
I'm not sure what you're saying, but what my understanding is that IN war you can't use hollow points. So maybe the military does use other calibers, but when they go to war they are using .45? That's my understanding anyways. I could be wrong.

Regardless, I'm just saying that for war in general, agencies want to use a round that makes a bigger hole since they can't use expanding ammunition.
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Yes, you are wrong.

Yes, you don't understand what I am saying.

No, armies do not change calibers to go to war...

Maybe I'm wrong and don't understand the principles, but after 34 years of experience wearing the uniform, I was under the impression that the concept was to engage at the max range envelope of each weapon system to maximize stand-off. With that in mind I doubt that pistols ever even get considered in the deployment planning. The entire argument is rather silly. If you have ball and can't shoot your opponent "good", then just shoot him "lots". If you have a good JHP well then - yay...
 
mudgunner49 said:
Yes, you are wrong.

Yes, you don't understand what I am saying.

No, armies do not change calibers to go to war...

Maybe I'm wrong and don't understand the principles, but after 34 years of experience wearing the uniform, I was under the impression that the concept was to engage at the max range envelope of each weapon system to maximize stand-off. With that in mind I doubt that pistols ever even get considered in the deployment planning. The entire argument is rather silly. If you have ball and can't shoot your opponent "good", then just shoot him "lots". If you have a good JHP well then - yay...
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If I have to draw my browning. We should have already been retreating.
 
Cocked&Locked said:
...Walk out to your local outdoor shooting range, and dig in the back stop a bit and you'll find 38, 9mm and 45 in such good condition you swear you could load em and fire em again. I've brought a few home and miked em to see what distortion there was, generally only the tip is deformed, assuming the ground was dry and hard. If it's wet or soft, they look like new.
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This has been my findings also.
The only rounds that I found expanded a little were full house .357 and .44 Mag bullets.
 
It's faster to switch to a pistol and engage a target when your rifle jams then to try and fix the rifle stoppage.

Hollow point is better for self defence than FMJ.
XSlor is pretty confused.
 
Hollow point is better for self defence than FMJ.
XSlor is pretty confused.
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I've never said otherwise... I fully agree that HP is way better than FMJ... all I said was that you can't use HP in war... therefore they use FMJ...

I also said that the FBI went back to 9mm HP because they found it to be just as effective as any other caliber. But a FMJ, the bigger the caliber, the better the results. Therefore 9mm FMJ<45acp FMJ : 9mm HP ~= 45acp HP - in terms of damage that this. It's safe to conclude as well that 9mm HP > 45acp FMJ.
 
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I find it ironic that it is OK for a country to use hollow points on it's own citizens when it is against the "articles of war" to use them on another country's citizens.
 
I kept my 9mm & 40 pistols, sold my 45's. More fun and I like the other 2 calibers better. This discussion will go on forever and not be over... I wouldn't want to get hit with any caliber. Each can do significant damage.
 
Denisb said:
I find it ironic that it is OK for a country to use hollow points on it's own citizens when it is against the "articles of war" to use them on another country's citizens.
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In a way it does make sense though. FMJ has a better chance of being a through and through, especially if you miss and hit a wall or car or something else in the background. I think FMJ has more of a chance for collateral damage in those scenarios. But I agree... I think it's ironic that they don't allow HP in war though... Look at that huge controversy in Somalia with the 5.56...
 
XSlor said:
I've never said otherwise..
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XSlor said:
Didn't read the entire thread, but there was an interesting post about the FBI moving to 9mm. 9mm hollow point is on par with other expanding caliber. The military however uses .45 because they are not allowed to use hollow point. Therefore they want to make the biggest hole possible in their target.
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No worries. This is what I was referring to.


Denisb said:
I find it ironic that it is OK for a country to use hollow points on it's own citizens when it is against the "articles of war" to use them on another country's citizens.
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Yup. It's technically a war crime to use tear gas on enemy combatants (ie Taliban) but legal to use it on civilians, our own or another countries.
 
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