Holster rules, IPSC and non-IPSC members

[crash277]

The training requirements for individual clubs are set by the club. It has nothing to do with IPSC. Many clubs that require "holster training" allow the BB...but again...that's up to the individual club. Keep in mind that the BB is not a holster course...it's much more then that, and is over kill for someone who just wants to use a holster (ie. not shoot IPSC)

The rule regarding drop leg holsters is as follows:

5.2.7 Competitors must not be permitted to commence a course of fire wearing:
5.2.7.1 A shoulder holster or "tie-down" rig (visible or otherwise), except as specified in Rule 5.2.8;
Note: All other rules regarding muzzle direction and covering of the trigger still apply to duty rigs

5.2.8 Competitors deemed by the Match Director to be active law enforcement officers or military personnel may be entitled to use their duty holster and allied equipment however, the Range Master will remain the final authority in respect of the safety and suitability of using such equipment at IPSC matches.

In plain English...if you are a legitimate active LEO or Military...you can use your duty holster, at the approval of the Range Master. It also means if your duty rig has retaining snaps, flaps, ...they must also be used (hence the reason that the few people who do show up and can legitimately use a duty rig...don't)

So for military, does it have to be an issued one or can it be similar to the issued one? Lots of times they get issued for a specific period then returned. Your not supposed to use dnd kid for civilian use.

 

[Quigley]

So for military, does it have to be an issued one or can it be similar to the issued one? Lots of times they get issued for a specific period then returned. Your not supposed to use dnd kid for civilian use.

The rule book is not that specific. That you would have to take up with the Range Master. In my recollection...in the last 15 years...I have only ever seen one person shoot a duty rig that would not have been otherwise allowed by the rules...and with all the snaps and covers and flaps...he was so trussed up...he was about 5 seconds to the first shot...and 10 seconds to do a mag change. It was pretty painful to watch

The only reason you would use a duty rig would be to use IPSC as a form of training (familiarity with your tools) but...IPSC is so far removed from anything you would ever do as an LEO or in the Military...it's not going to be useful training (other than trigger time, which you can do with a more sport appropriate rig)

 

[Canuck44]

Does this mean the BB cert expires if you don't shoot at least one IPSC match per year?

I was out for a year and had to re-write the open book exam to maintain it. Had I been out for two years I would have had to take the course over again. Here in BC dues run $80/annum IIRC and you have to shoot one qualifier a year ($45.) If you like shooting IPSC these costs are the smallest part. I reload so I can keep my costs down - well not really I just shoot way more. LOL. If you like the sport the folks are fun to shoot with and you certainly will enjoy yourself. It like IDPA, ICORE or PPC is not for everyone but it certainly appeals to many and is a fast paced, fun shooting sport that is not easy to master but then neither is golf.

Take Care

Bob

 

[superbad]

I remember a time where men could just be men.

 

[Cameron SS]

I'm looking for some clarification on a conversation I had at a shooting range recently.

I was asking about the black badge course and how it relates to people using a holster at the range while just shooting on their own.

Specifically I was asking if the black badge course was just for IPSC shooting or do I need it anytime I want to use a holster even for target practice. I've heard some ranges make members take a holster safety course.

He explained that some ranges do safety courses but a safety course run in Ottawa wouldn't necessarily carry over to a range in Smith falls. He didn't answer if the black badge course would cover me for all ranges. He also said (I'm assuing for IPSC) I could only use a holster on a belt that someone would use for CCW. When I asked about a drop leg holster he laughed and said that those are frowned on because I would be 'lazing' people anytime I tried to take my pistol out and I couldn't control the muzzle.

He indicated if I wanted to use a drop leg holster for IPSC I would need to "show up" in everything I use at work-uniform body armor chest rig. Is that an actual rule? if someone wanted to shoot in an IPSC competition they need to show up dressed for work??

Black Badge course is a self imposed pre-requisite to competing in IPSC, nothing more, nothing less. It is nationally and internationally recognized to that effect. Can't speak to the rules of IPSC, but I can definitely draw from my drop leg holster without lazing anyone, as it sits a mere 6 inches lower then a belt holster in the exact same, vertical orientation. I'd be interested to hear someone explain otherwise. I've been told by IPSC enthusiasts that they are banned mostly because they are so slow as to be deemed non competitive, and virtually no one uses them anyways.

A club basically has four options when its comes to holsters.

1. Ban them. some ranges, sadly, do this.
2. Allow them, some ranges, gladly, do this.
3. Put conditions on holster wear/carry privileges, which are granted subject to the BB/IPSC program. Many clubs do this, for a variety of reasons. My club does solely because of the small and congested nature of our small range and busy schedule. 99% of people who want to shoot from a holster are interested in IPSC, and practice at the range under IPSC conditions under the supervision of IPSC ROs. Holster wear outside of scheduled IPSC practices is prohibited. Sadly.
4. Put conditions on holster wear privileges subject to some other process, like an in house holster course training/certification. These are club specific, and obviously not convertible to other ranges. Some ranges do this.

A disproportionate number of accidents you see on Youtube and in CFO reports show that holsters are something that clubs need to follow closely. Each club is different, with different demographics, and will make their own rules accordingly. Holsters aren't rocket science, but simple mistakes have tragic consequences, and draw unwanted attention to the whole club.

Yep, BB is a useful course whether or not you ever intend to shoot IPSC.

I don't see how. BB is NOT the centre of excellence for holster use. The course is highly geared to a rule dominated environment and a single discipline of shooting and competition. The requirements to maintain your BB are expensive, onerous, and have nothing to do with shooting safely from a holster.

Thanks for the replies. I don't as of yet have any intention to shoot any IPSC stuff. In all honestly it seems a bit too technical and rule oriented for me; I'm just looking to shoot recreational. That's not a slight against the shooters that do shoot ipsc of course.

Step one. Find a range with little to no restrictions on holster use. Find someone who is familiar with a holster and get 30 minutes of one on one training dry, then live. You'll be fine, and have fun.

So for military, does it have to be an issued one or can it be similar to the issued one? Lots of times they get issued for a specific period then returned. Your not supposed to use dnd kid for civilian use.

Why anyone would insist on using the Bianchi "widowmaker" is beyond me. Every self respecting soldier I've seen carrying a pistol has used either a SafariLand or a Serpa. Sometimes issued locally, sometimes purchased.

I remember a time where men could just be men.

There may yet be a time when men can be men again. We'll see.