Home made 10 gauge brass
- Thread starter ssapach
- Start date
Took the hacksaw and cut my sample with the internal countersink......just for fun.
The sloped edges into the primer pocket are unintentional, just a result of the 25/32" drill from boring the initial hole. Could be easily flattened with an end mill I suppose.
Damn, I need a turret lathe.......
The sloped edges into the primer pocket are unintentional, just a result of the 25/32" drill from boring the initial hole. Could be easily flattened with an end mill I suppose.
Damn, I need a turret lathe.......
So I had a little bit of experimentation with disappointing results.
So these first 2 pics are from the black powder round. Loaded with 4.5 drams of FFG and 1-1/2 oz #6 lead shot (it happened to be one of the loads I had on a list in front of me)
And this was with smokeless, 30 grains of 800-X and 1-3/8 oz of #6 lead shot (This is what I load all my 10 gauge with according to the Ballistic Products load book for 10 gauge)
Both went off just as expected, and hit the snowbank I was aiming at. The black bowder is actually quite awesome, with the smoke, flame, thunder and all! Never shot any actual black powder until now.
So I'm not sure if the cracks will be due to the thin wall, maybe too small of an outside diameter for my chamber (I got my initial dimensions from a 1901 Winchester, which doesn't seem to have the same chamber diameter as my SxS) or maybe because I didn't anneal the brass after machining?
As usual, open to criticism here. Hate to keep wasting my time making them if they are all going to crack, so perhaps I'm overlooking something simple.
So these first 2 pics are from the black powder round. Loaded with 4.5 drams of FFG and 1-1/2 oz #6 lead shot (it happened to be one of the loads I had on a list in front of me)
And this was with smokeless, 30 grains of 800-X and 1-3/8 oz of #6 lead shot (This is what I load all my 10 gauge with according to the Ballistic Products load book for 10 gauge)
Both went off just as expected, and hit the snowbank I was aiming at. The black bowder is actually quite awesome, with the smoke, flame, thunder and all! Never shot any actual black powder until now.
So I'm not sure if the cracks will be due to the thin wall, maybe too small of an outside diameter for my chamber (I got my initial dimensions from a 1901 Winchester, which doesn't seem to have the same chamber diameter as my SxS) or maybe because I didn't anneal the brass after machining?
As usual, open to criticism here. Hate to keep wasting my time making them if they are all going to crack, so perhaps I'm overlooking something simple.
- Location
- Algoma region
1917 South Bend.....well according to the South Bend company and the serial # on the bed of the lathe.
Geeze louise thats nice kit!!!!!!!!
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
id do a chamber cast and maybe lightly anneal after machining maybe the alloy you are using is brittle as well
That's sort of the plan now. The brass shells aren't too cooperative in feeding in the 1901. Not sure why, as it's not like there is anything physically gripping the part of the casing that would otherwise be plastic or paper.....so I suppose they would be stuck with use in the double only.
I'm not totally sure on the exact alloy I'm using, I suppose that could be a problem too. How would I go about doing a chamber cast? Is that something you can do at home or is it more like a trip to a gunsmith?
Generally brass rod if fairly hard, no doubt from being rolled in production. I believe "half hard" is a term used. The times that I have made cases from solid, I have annealed the top half or two thirds of the case, but left the head alone.
Making the cases to fit the double may be easier than making ones to fit the repeater. With the double, all they have to do is slide smoothly into the chambers with a nice slide fit.
Making the cases to fit the double may be easier than making ones to fit the repeater. With the double, all they have to do is slide smoothly into the chambers with a nice slide fit.
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I think this is the way to go too. You have two guns with quite different sized chambers, you are going to have to deal with the difference by making two different size cases.
As to the chamber cast question, the sorta official way is to use CerroSafe, which is a low melting temperature alloy that will melt at boiling water temperatures, and has the feature of shrinking ever so slightly immediately after the pour, and then growing at a known rate thereafter for a while. You block the barrel ahead of where you want to measure, pour it in, remove it and measure it. Check the info on Brownell's site about it.
Other materials that can and have been used, include wax and molten sulfur. YMMV with use of those.
You should be able to measure well enough with a micrometer and a set of expanding bore gages in a chamber that large, though. Or a mic and an inside caliper.
Look up the costituent parts of the various alloys used for brass casings (which are usually deep drawn, and compare to the usual alloys that are available in bar form. It seems probable to me that you have basic 360 brass, and it may (or may not) be too hard as is, given the splits.
Half hard brass is supposedly the equivalent hardness that one would get if you rolled raw cast brass down to half it's original thickness. It hardens by moving, softens from heating, and the only thing that quenching it after heating does, is limit the opportunity for scale to form on it while it is hot.
Best of luck! Keep us posted.
Cheers
Trev
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
from the photo's you have supplied, I can see three possible causes of your problem. The first two, case to chamber differential size and material brittleness have already been covered.
A quik question, did you measure the chambers of the gun you fired them in before firing. The reason I ask, is it possible that the firing of these cases expanded the chamber to the size it is now?
The third possible cause I can see is the counter sink cut you made around the primer pocket. Essentially you have created a close facsimile of the old so called "balloon head" case. These type cases were discontinued very early in the evolution of brass cases. Altho your cases have a lot more brass thickness in this area than the original balloon heads, it is obvious from the photos that that is were they are all cracking. I would be suspicious of a millisecond of high pressure peak in that ring before the rest of the powder, wads and shot column get a chance to start to moving. The powder close to the primer and in that ring will have a good burn going before anything else starts to move.
It is just a thought and may be over-analyzing so take it for what its worth to you.
A quik question, did you measure the chambers of the gun you fired them in before firing. The reason I ask, is it possible that the firing of these cases expanded the chamber to the size it is now?
The third possible cause I can see is the counter sink cut you made around the primer pocket. Essentially you have created a close facsimile of the old so called "balloon head" case. These type cases were discontinued very early in the evolution of brass cases. Altho your cases have a lot more brass thickness in this area than the original balloon heads, it is obvious from the photos that that is were they are all cracking. I would be suspicious of a millisecond of high pressure peak in that ring before the rest of the powder, wads and shot column get a chance to start to moving. The powder close to the primer and in that ring will have a good burn going before anything else starts to move.
It is just a thought and may be over-analyzing so take it for what its worth to you.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
I've done I lightly on other cases while forming when I say lightly I mean lightly I just touch the flame on it and never let it change color and it gets the plunge. works well and lets the case head form easier
the cases look quite ballooned out to my eye. I would be inclined as others have said, make the cases match the chamber and also I would be inclined to sit the cases on a pedestal in a tray of water with only 1/8" of water covering the head and anneal them down most of the way. You might not be able to get the bottom 3/8" hot enough to anneal. I also would be inclined to make the head a solid head rather than the balloon head that you are using. You may find that a thinner case was close to the head might stretch where the thicker wall might crack but that is speculation on my part.
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
I haven't forgotten about this just yet, as I keep tripping over the lengths of brass stock I have in the shop.....I just get busy with other projects and switch between them all when I get frustrated with one or the other. Also working on trying to rebarrel a 1905 Ross action, so both of these projects compete for lathe space.
Messed around for a bit tonight and made a 2" shell. I then loaded it with 4 drams of FFG and 1oz of #9 lead shot. That combo filled it right to the top with some cardboard wadding beneath the shot. Never actually measured the thickness, but it would be something like 3/16" including the nitro card over the powder.
And then I giggled like a little girl when I pulled the trigger on it!
Here are the results of the shell after firing, turned out much better than my last attempts at shells.
This time measured the inside of the chambers of my SxS and noticed they have a very slight taper. Not sure if that's the norm for shotgun shells or not....? it's about a .006" to .008" difference in the length of the chamber before the forcing cone. I may not have been using the most accurate tooling, but it gave me the right idea.
So I attempted to turn the OD of the shell somewhere in the middle. Seemed to work nicely, as the shell was thin enough I could just work it into the chamber a little and it squeezed the open end a little tighter. Before I loaded it, I was able to just drop the shell in and it fit nice and snug under it's own empty weight.
I may need to make a slight taper die now just to help reshape all the shells after I turn them out on the lathe.
After firing, it extracted without any struggle and of course was pretty darn filthy. The shell has a slight bulge in it, but nothing like any of the previous shells I made and fired.
I wonder if I can use BP for shooting trap at the local range.....I think the rest of the people who go there would get quite the kick out of it! I would need to make 24 more shells though!
Messed around for a bit tonight and made a 2" shell. I then loaded it with 4 drams of FFG and 1oz of #9 lead shot. That combo filled it right to the top with some cardboard wadding beneath the shot. Never actually measured the thickness, but it would be something like 3/16" including the nitro card over the powder.
And then I giggled like a little girl when I pulled the trigger on it!
Here are the results of the shell after firing, turned out much better than my last attempts at shells.
This time measured the inside of the chambers of my SxS and noticed they have a very slight taper. Not sure if that's the norm for shotgun shells or not....? it's about a .006" to .008" difference in the length of the chamber before the forcing cone. I may not have been using the most accurate tooling, but it gave me the right idea.
So I attempted to turn the OD of the shell somewhere in the middle. Seemed to work nicely, as the shell was thin enough I could just work it into the chamber a little and it squeezed the open end a little tighter. Before I loaded it, I was able to just drop the shell in and it fit nice and snug under it's own empty weight.
I may need to make a slight taper die now just to help reshape all the shells after I turn them out on the lathe.
After firing, it extracted without any struggle and of course was pretty darn filthy. The shell has a slight bulge in it, but nothing like any of the previous shells I made and fired.
I wonder if I can use BP for shooting trap at the local range.....I think the rest of the people who go there would get quite the kick out of it! I would need to make 24 more shells though!
