Has anyone here machined their own revolver cylinder? I've got an antique Rogers & Spencer revolver in need of a new cylinder. If I cannot find a reproduction cylinder to fit, I am tempted to take on the task of machining one. I found a source for round bar of 4140 ETD-150 and I have access to a lathe. Any advice?
Homemade cylinder for antique revolver.
- Thread starter AviatorA
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I've got nothing on the machining, but I would recommend using 4140 HTSR (Heat Treated, Stress Relieved) instead of the ETD-150. The ETD is heavily worked to get its strength and is less ductile than the HTSR condition. Even normalized 4140 would be a better choice. It isn't as high strength, but it again has much better ductility and toughness.
Mark
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
lathe... well that is going to take a lot of setup for each cylinder, ever chamber will need to be indexed in the 4 jaw chuck individually.
easier to do the chambers on a mill with a rotary table
same with indexing the cylinder stops on the mill using a tiny woodruff cutter
I have given a little thought to this and don't think I have the skill to do it but would give it a go perhaps on the 5th or 6th try I might produce something that would work.
easier to do the chambers on a mill with a rotary table
same with indexing the cylinder stops on the mill using a tiny woodruff cutter
I have given a little thought to this and don't think I have the skill to do it but would give it a go perhaps on the 5th or 6th try I might produce something that would work.
That's fair, this might be a bit too ambitious for the tooling I have access to. I doubt I'll be able to get the accuracy needed by drilling the chambers with an old drill press. I'll have to try to see if I can make one out of wood for the fun of it.
The ratchet, locking notches and chambers must all be indexed correctly.
Jig(s) would need to be made. I would be inclined to start with a piece of hexagonal stock.
I have two handmade revolvers; darned if I know how the cylinders were made, but the ratchets, notches and chambers are correct, so the gunsmith must have made an indexing system.
Rogers & Spencer revolvers have been reproduced. No idea if the new cylinders are close enough to the originals to be useful.
Jig(s) would need to be made. I would be inclined to start with a piece of hexagonal stock.
I have two handmade revolvers; darned if I know how the cylinders were made, but the ratchets, notches and chambers are correct, so the gunsmith must have made an indexing system.
Rogers & Spencer revolvers have been reproduced. No idea if the new cylinders are close enough to the originals to be useful.
I'd imagine with a jig you could cut the ratchet and mount the cylinder without chambers or locking notches in the revolver. Then you could use the frame and barrel of the revolver to mark the notches and chambers based off the ratchet. I do like the hexagonal stock idea as well.
To be able to make a revolver from scratch would take a lot of patience from an incredibly skilled gunsmith! Very neat that you have a couple examples.
I'll have to keep looking for a reproduction. I saw a video on YouTube of a guy comparing the original to the Euroarms reproduction and he demonstrated that the repro cylinder could be made to fit. The original cylinder pin was a bit too large for the cylinder to mount, so if I were to bore out the ID of the cylinder a bit then it might fit.
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I posted a detailed thread about the revolvers in 2018, in the gunsmithing forum. Just did a web search for the gunsmith, Selby S Webb, and lo and behold, the CGN thread turned up as one of the hits.
Years ago, I made a quantity of tapered octagon to round barrels. To index the cuts for the octagon section, I took a piece of octagon barrel and turned a section to fit smoothly into the bore of the barrel blanks. Bored and threaded the piece, with an internal taper at the round end, and cut slits in it. Made a piece that threaded into this bore so that when it was advanced, the cylindrical section would expand, locking it to the bore of the blank. An internal collet. Clamped the protruding octagon at one end of a jig and the round portion to a V-block at the other. Mill a flat, rotate one step, mill another, and so on. Worked fine. That is why I suggested hex stock for the cylinder blank. Accurate indexing built in.
Years ago, I made a quantity of tapered octagon to round barrels. To index the cuts for the octagon section, I took a piece of octagon barrel and turned a section to fit smoothly into the bore of the barrel blanks. Bored and threaded the piece, with an internal taper at the round end, and cut slits in it. Made a piece that threaded into this bore so that when it was advanced, the cylindrical section would expand, locking it to the bore of the blank. An internal collet. Clamped the protruding octagon at one end of a jig and the round portion to a V-block at the other. Mill a flat, rotate one step, mill another, and so on. Worked fine. That is why I suggested hex stock for the cylinder blank. Accurate indexing built in.
I took a look at that thread, very neat. Impressive work from that gunsmith!
I'll have to look into finding some Hex stock, sound like it would make it easier to machine and get everything lined up. What alloy did you use for the barrel blanks?
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
I would think that the cylinder stops and chamber alignment would not be terribly difficult, bore the chambers first, index the cylinder in a hexagon fixture and then put that in the vise on the mill and cut with a woodruff cutter rotate the hexagon block in the vise and do the next one. change to a regular cutter and cut the taper to the notch.
The ratchet is going to be tricky to index, I would machine that separately and affix it to the cylinder.
The ratchet is going to be tricky to index, I would machine that separately and affix it to the cylinder.
They were for muzzleloading reproduction NW Trade Guns. 1137 steel. The blanks were made for us by Numrich Arms. 36 1/4" long, 1 3/16" diameter, .58 smoothbore. Finished at 1 1/16" octagon to 3/4" at the muzzle. A blank weighed more than a finished gun. It would take me 2 1/2 hours to go from a blank to breeched barrel, doing them in batches. I'd do the tapered round sections first, using a steady rest, in two sections, then set up to do the octagon milling. Did this on a 16" x 57" South Bend lathe made in 1932.
Consider the Colt Single Action Army - the cylinder uses a base pin bushing. A ratchet could be made integral with a base pin bushing. The ratchet could be held in index to the cylinder with a pin.
Cylinder ratchets can be made in different ways. Inspect cylinders of different makes, and the various methods can be seen.
Easiest solution though, would be to use a reproduction cylinder, assuming one could be obtained and that it could be adapted.
Might be worth emailing Euroarms in Italy, see if they can help.
Taylor's & Co. offer a cartridge conversion cylinder set for $285. Would it would work in an original?
Consider the Colt Single Action Army - the cylinder uses a base pin bushing. A ratchet could be made integral with a base pin bushing. The ratchet could be held in index to the cylinder with a pin.
Cylinder ratchets can be made in different ways. Inspect cylinders of different makes, and the various methods can be seen.
Easiest solution though, would be to use a reproduction cylinder, assuming one could be obtained and that it could be adapted.
Might be worth emailing Euroarms in Italy, see if they can help.
Taylor's & Co. offer a cartridge conversion cylinder set for $285. Would it would work in an original?
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Great advice, thanks for the insight! Makes sense to machine the ratchet separately so I could make a few of them if the timing is a bit off.
I'll try emailing Euroarms, I had heard that it was out of business so I was unsure if I could get through to them. The cartridge conversion was something I had considered as well, I'll have to reach out to them see if they know if it would fit.
Before I went any further I would contact the company that is building the reproduction models I know that uberti revolvers parts do interchange
With the original guns with minimal alterations
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
I like threads like these, challenges my mind to figure out how to machine things
I might try to make one out of Aluminum
I might try to make one out of Aluminum
- Location
- near Yorkton SK
and, you have the shop with gear etc to do things
lol
A lathe is the wrong machine to drill and ream the chambers, you will need to do that on a mill/drill.
You can turn the stock to the proper outside diameter and establish the diameter for the timing lugs at the rear, but that's about it.
This is not a simple job for an amateur. Most gunsmiths wouldn't attempt it.
Indexing the holes to properly time with the indexing lugs and operating hand will also be an issue, because if the original cylinder is badly worn, a new hand will also have to be made.
It's not something I would attempt again. Often, just repairing an original cylinder's timing can be extremely tedious and time consuming.
This strikes as one of those things that seems simple but will turn out to be way more complicated than people think.
Indexing each of the chambers and getting them straight will be a chore in and of itself.
That looks very simple, until you've actually tried doing it.
I have attempted it twice, and both times, it looked good, but when it came time to measure the centers of those holes, none of them were within .005 in of the one next to it.
It needs to be much more precise than what was shown.
The next question is whether or not the OP's pistol has 5-6, or more chambers in the cylinder.
