Hornady Brass - 10gr difference :O

Fox

Fox

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My wife's bolt action 30-30 shoots the Hornady Lever Revolution ammo quite well and I will soon be loading 160gr FTX for it. I planned on using the Hornady brass as I have 100 once fired from that gun over the last 5 years. Well, I noticed there are 2 different headstamps and I decided to check between them, there is 10gr of weight difference from one headstamp type to another. This is not ammo from the 80s to now, this is all Lever Revolution ammo. I opened up the ammo cabinet and the 2 factory boxes of ammo I have, different lot but all the same 160gr FTX Hornady have 2 different head stamps from one box to the other.

So I decided to go to the Federal brass that I have as I have a bunch of that as well and it seems to be close, the interesting thing is that the Federal stuff and one of the types of Hornady weigh the same.

Does anyone know who makes/made Hornady brass?
 
That powder is loaded to the approx. same performance level's. When the manufactures make it up they are looking for the same pressure/ velocity.
 
zuke said:
That powder is loaded to the approx. same performance level's. When the manufactures make it up they are looking for the same pressure/ velocity.
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Yes exactly, the primers are actually obviously different from the outside too.

That being said, I cannot use these 2 totally different brass as the same for loads.

I have always been told to use like headstamps, I have never noticed much of a difference with Remington or Winchester so it threw me when I saw 2 different stamps and 2 different weights, they obviously were not made the same.
 
new210/22 said:
For the practical shooting distance of a 30-30 it is quite likely her gun won’t notice the difference. I would load a few of each and compare poi. Good luck.
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Well it is currently under 2 MOA with the factory loads, not planning on a 50 yard 30-30 here or I would just load 170gr FP bullets on top of some 4895.
 
Is it going to matter for something you would use a 30-30 for? Probably not, but you might want to at least sort them according to headstamp to maintain balance in the universe.

I've found more difference than that in weight-sorted Nosler brass; box to box. They weight sorted them sure, but it wasn't like they threw the rest away.
 
OP,
Measure the trimmed length of your Hornady brass.

Hornady Lever Evolution straight wall 444Marlin,45-70 & 450 Marlin factory ammo brass is trimmed shorter to allow crimping for their FTX projectiles.
 
Dogleg said:
Is it going to matter for something you would use a 30-30 for? Probably not, but you might want to at least sort them according to headstamp to maintain balance in the universe.

I've found more difference than that in weight-sorted Nosler brass; box to box. They weight sorted them sure, but it wasn't like they threw the rest away.
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They are not the same brass, I put the beam scale up and every other make of brass is within the travel up and down of the beam, this stuff is obviously made by 2 different companies.

No, she probably does not need to have high accuracy, but what is the point in reloading if you are not even trying? If you are working up a load then switch for a much heavier piece or brass you risk damage too as the internal volume could be significantly different.

Don't worry, not tossing any brass, could just load up plinking loads with it and keep the brass matching, but I have never seen this before with the same headstamp from primary ammunition manufacturers.

DANS40X said:
OP,
Measure the trimmed length of your Hornady brass.

Hornady Lever Evolution straight wall 444Marlin,45-70 & 450 Marlin factory ammo brass is trimmed shorter to allow crimping for their FTX projectiles.
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This brass is not short, I put the Lee trimmer into the cases and I need to take a little off, so they were not made short. I know the 45-70 was made short for the FTX but I don't know about any of the other ones.
 
Fox said:
This brass is not short, I put the Lee trimmer into the cases and I need to take a little off, so they were not made short. I know the 45-70 was made short for the FTX but I don't know about any of the other ones.
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Use the correct precision instrument instead of a 60's vintage screw machine POS Lee product.

Your 30-30 head spaces off the rim.

As mentioned,segregate head stamps to reload for that lot.

Load up 5 rounds of each HS brass that you have on hand w/ same load & shoot them thru a chronograph & to group @ 100yds.

Take notes
Do not assume or guess.
 
Hornady forms their own brass.

I have had them make brass for me. They bought brass blanks from Winchester (look like brass quarters) and used them to form the brass.

A set of forming dies lasts about 100,000 cases, so new dies and new headstamps are made from time to time, and the source of the blanks can change too.

This is why we use lot numbers.
 
DANS40X said:
Use the correct precision instrument instead of a 60's vintage screw machine POS Lee product.

Your 30-30 head spaces off the rim.

As mentioned,segregate head stamps to reload for that lot.

Load up 5 rounds of each HS brass that you have on hand w/ same load & shoot them thru a chronograph & to group @ 100yds.

Take notes
Do not assume or guess.
Click to expand...

WOW, no need to be a jerk, the Lee trim tool is not a POS, it uses steel to set the length of the brass after trimming from the base of the case.

They are not short, I just pulled out the 2 different Hornady cases and a Winchester case, they all measure 2.032in, these are fired brass. That matches the factory unfired cases in the Hornady, Winchester and Federal in my cabinet right now, they are not short cases for the 30-30, people claim a 20 thou difference in length but that is not the case with the Hornady, 20 thou is not insignificant.

This was measured with a dial vernier, I don't have any micrometers kicking around here and cannot go the office to use one, although it is not needed in this case.
 
Ganderite said:
Hornady forms their own brass.

I have had them make brass for me. They bought brass blanks from Winchester (look like brass quarters) and used them to form the brass.

A set of forming dies lasts about 100,000 cases, so new dies and new headstamps are made from time to time, and the source of the blanks can change too.

This is why we use lot numbers.
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I know that they do form some of their own brass but do they form all of it? 10gr seems like a lot formed from the same manufacturer. I don't buy ammo to the same lot so my brass is not from the same lot and this is the first time I have seen such a significant difference with one ammunition manufacturer. I know Lapua is suppose to be the best for consistency, obviously I do not need that but I was baffled by 10 grains difference and a visually obvious difference in primers as well from one box of factory ammo to the next bought within the same year, they shoot the same though at least from the factory.
 
I have not worked with them for the last 10 years, so don't know if they out source any brass.

But the normal course of events can mean different dies (as they wear and get replaced) different sources of brass and changes in process. I recall Winchester changing 308 from a 5 draw to a 4 draw (or maybe the other way around) The result was lighter brass.
 
10 grains of variation might seem like a lot but for a 3030 one can live with it.
Over 50 years ago when weighing brass and I were in our infancy, 40 rounds of Dominion 30-06 weighed from 183 to 206 grains.
Took the 20 in the center with about 5 grains of variation.
At the same time 40 rounds of Norma 6mm Remington varied 1.1 grains.
Now I segregate in to groups of 178, 179 and 180 (as an example). Those below 178 and above 180 are used to create templates for seating bullets to the lands.
 
Ganderite said:
I have not worked with them for the last 10 years, so don't know if they out source any brass.

But the normal course of events can mean different dies (as they wear and get replaced) different sources of brass and changes in process. I recall Winchester changing 308 from a 5 draw to a 4 draw (or maybe the other way around) The result was lighter brass.
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I am just thrown by how much. The Federal, Winchester, Remington and 1 Hornady were within the beam swing of an RCBS beam scale, which is not a lot, then this one is 10gr off from that. I just checked military vs commercial brass for 303 Brit to compare and they are 20gr difference, which is why you always make a different load for each brass type, just never expected that much from 2 of the same manufacturer.
 
horseman2 said:
10 grains of variation might seem like a lot but for a 3030 one can live with it.
Over 50 years ago when weighing brass and I were in our infancy, 40 rounds of Dominion 30-06 weighed from 183 to 206 grains.
Took the 20 in the center with about 5 grains of variation.
At the same time 40 rounds of Norma 6mm Remington varied 1.1 grains.
Now I segregate in to groups of 178, 179 and 180 (as an example). Those below 178 and above 180 are used to create templates for seating bullets to the lands.
Click to expand...

How much difference on paper at 100 yards would you see with the same load and 23gr of variation?

I definitely don't care about getting them a grain or 2 apart, but the different head stamp made me do a sanity check and these brass are much different than the other ones. It is possible that the alloy is different to make up for some of that and not change the internal volume much but I just set them aside for some plinking rounds down the road.

This 30-30 is dang accurate with the factory ammo and I will be loading 150gr Partitions at some point, unless I splurge on a 7mm-08 for her before then but our priorities are not in guns as much with the second baby here now. She wants to go shoot a bear and be able to hunt moose, I know that the 30-30 with 170gr FN will do fine on both of those close in but in a box mag 30-30 and as someone who likes to learn their guns a 150gr partition around 2400-2450fps keeps just that little bit more energy and has a bit flatter trajectory.
 
DANS40X said:
Use the correct precision instrument instead of a 60's vintage screw machine POS Lee product.

Your 30-30 head spaces off the rim.

As mentioned,segregate head stamps to reload for that lot.

Load up 5 rounds of each HS brass that you have on hand w/ same load & shoot them thru a chronograph & to group @ 100yds.

Take notes
Do not assume or guess.
Click to expand...

You will het better result and less case stretching by head-spacing on the shoulder.
The Lee dies are not the best to do that.
 
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