Horrible, diamond hard carbon fouling. What can I do?

flying pig

flying pig

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Hey guys, I have a very heavily hunted Ross 1905-R factory sporter I am in an uphill battle with. The barrel has good rifling in it, and is tight. Problem is that it has the most insane carbon fouling in it. I tried shooting it when I picked it up and the bullets tumbled hard. I cleaned and cleaned until the patches came out spotless. I then shot it again (5rds). Same result. So I cleaned and cleaned until the patches came out spotless. The bore looked clean but rough. The grooves look filled in on the chamber side and sharp on the forward edge. I shot it again today and the bullet holes are getting better (groups down to about a foot, and bullets entering the target at an angle instead of straight sideways). I thought for sure that the patches would come out clean, which they did at first until the Hoppes started doing its thing. They started to darken, then I used a new bore brush and they started coming out jet black and saturated again, heavy heavy deposits letting go! Holy hell this is unreal.

Is there anything else I can do or do I need to just keep doing this for the next hundred years to undo the last hundred? I was thinking of plugging the barrel and filling it up with Hoppes for a day or two and then going at it again, or is this a bad idea? I've had some horribly corroded gross barrels before but none compares to how rock hard these carbon deposits are.

The other thing I've been thinking about doing is having the barrel re bored to .35 Winchester. Some of the Ross guys in the U.S. Say they've done this with good results, but I'd rather work at cleaning it for a while longer first.

Thanks!
 
I don't know about anyone else, but I usually spray mine down (I use hoppes or rem borebrite and have filled it up when using an earplug in the bore) and let it sit awhile usually an hour or two ( but I have forgotten until the next day once when I got a work call) and then swab out and then I will soak it down again with a wet patch and patch until clean, then will use my copper fouling treatment and I let that sit a while as well, using the same procedure, Work well for me. I only carbon clean every 2-400 rounds or when accuracy falls off and do the copper one every 7-800 reds or when the carbon removal isn't doing the trick. Ymmv.
 
I can suggest trying a couple of different bore solvents. Not saying any one is better, just for example one is likely to be good at carbon, another at copper, etc. You might find something that attacks another layer of what your current solvent isn't so good at. Try alternating between brands. I have also had good luck with warming the barrel by pouring hot water through with a funnel then immediately solvent brushing and patching. Most chemical reactions work faster when warmed up. Tried a stainless steel brush (gently?) Phosphor bronze brushes may give a false sense of progress as the brush wears and brush particles come out on subsequent patches.
 
Yes I wore out two stainless .35 cal brushes in it and probably close to a half dozen bronze brushes the same size. The bronze brushes do leave the patches a bit bronze coloured, but the patches go straight back to all black if using the stainless brush.

I've used wipe out, RB-17 and one other bore solvent I can't remember the name of on it as well as the Hoppes which has been seeming to do the best.
 
Spray some Wipe Out down the bore and leave it overnight. Then wipe it out.

I have had similar problems with rifles and what really happens is you get a layer of copper over a layer of powder fouling. Then every time you fire a round you get another layer. No, I am not saying nice even layers but still layers.

The Wipe Out penetrates between the layers by dissolving the copper and softening the powder fouling. I have seen some rifles so badly fouled they need two or three applications before they are clean.
 
Yes, keep applying Wipe out. LEt it sit overnight, patch it out, re-apply, go to work, come home, patch it out, fill it back up, etc. Repeat as required.

JB Paste will also work, and while I have not used it on bores, the Slip2000 carbon cutter seems to really dissolve carbon.
 
There is a video from riflechair on Gunslick and a couple of others that worked well.

h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO6GbH2CFKo&feature=em-share_video_user
 
Well - If the bore is pitted, trying to keep it clean is problematic, and somewhat of a waste of time. Its typical for barrels to wear on the leading edge of the rifling, that's the surface that's doing the work getting the bullet to spin. I had a P-14 that was similar. The cleanest I could get it was by letting the Hoppes soak for several hours at a time, cleaning and repeating 4 or 5 times. I find chemical means to be more effective than mechanical means (ie endless stroking with a bore brush)
In the end, I found that the 312 dia Hornady bullets managed to stabilize - I don't think the cleaning benefitted this exercise particularly.
 
I decided to plug the bore last night and fill it with Hoppes and leave it.

I used a whole can of wipe out in overnight cycles until the wipe out quit taking anymore fouling out, the patches came out clean and the bore looked 'shiny'. It was an optical illusion though. Whatever layer I had hit the wipe out would not touch. Now after shooting it the cleaners are working again. This might just be a long one

Are the factories loading 303 with a fairly quick powder still? Maybe I should try the hornady 312 RNs over 4895 and see if it stabilizes them over the factory loaded spitzers.
 
Well - Every time you shoot it, the pitting fills up with crud, and you are back to cleaning it again. Chances are you got the bore clean with the overnight Hoppes...
 
flying pig said:
Yes I wore out two stainless .35 cal brushes in it and probably close to a half dozen bronze brushes the same size. The bronze brushes do leave the patches a bit bronze coloured, but the patches go straight back to all black if using the stainless brush.

I've used wipe out, RB-17 and one other bore solvent I can't remember the name of on it as well as the Hoppes which has been seeming to do the best.
Click to expand...

If you have scrubbed with a stainless brush you have permanently harmed the rifling.

Many shooters use JB Bore Cleaning Paste (on a bronze brush or a patch) to safely remove heavy fouling.
 
You can try Kleens from GM or any upper valve cleaner for engines. Don't leave it in the barrel for more than 15 mins and clean and oil. look at bore and repeat as necessary.
 
guntech said:
If you have scrubbed with a stainless brush you have permanently harmed the rifling.

Many shooters use JB Bore Cleaning Paste (on a bronze brush or a patch) to safely remove heavy fouling.
Click to expand...

Just as a sidebar, I've never used the stainless brushes either but why do they even make them?
 
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