Horribly noob sighting in question
- Thread starter brit84
- Start date
Scenario,
shooting at target, aiming dead center. Bullet hits high. do I adjust so that crosshairs cover where the bullet hit?
Hmm... that's an interesting way to look at scope adjustments. The adjustment on the scope usually relate to the point of impact (POI) and not the movement of the reticle (crosshairs). So if you're POI is high, on every scopes I've used you would adjust the elevation downward until the POI is center of target and where you're aiming. I find it confusing when people talk about moving the reticle towards the POI when scope adjustments move the POI towards the reticle. Clear as mud? 
Yes, but what you are doing is not a newbie technique.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4720820_zero-rifle-one-shot.html
One shot or two shot zero. I would suggest had you use a more conventional approach to zeroing your rig. It shooting high, look the knobs on your elevation crank it in the down direction. Fire again 3 rounds. Make adjustments until your point of aim and point of impact are the same.
The other technique, the one shot zero, is pretty much filler for the gun magazines.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4720820_zero-rifle-one-shot.html
One shot or two shot zero. I would suggest had you use a more conventional approach to zeroing your rig. It shooting high, look the knobs on your elevation crank it in the down direction. Fire again 3 rounds. Make adjustments until your point of aim and point of impact are the same.
The other technique, the one shot zero, is pretty much filler for the gun magazines.
One shot zero
My God! I've been doing it wrong for over 40 years, by using this technique to get a rough zero. Maybe it is a good thing that I don't read a lot of the gun magazines that have this for fillers.
But then again, Scientists say that it aerodynamically impossible for a Bumble Bee to fly.
.
My God! I've been doing it wrong for over 40 years, by using this technique to get a rough zero. Maybe it is a good thing that I don't read a lot of the gun magazines that have this for fillers.
But then again, Scientists say that it aerodynamically impossible for a Bumble Bee to fly.
.
No matter how you describe it, we're all doing the same thing: adjusting the scope or sights so that they are pointing to where the gun is going to place the bullet. Scope adjustments refer to "moving the point of impact" but what we are in fact doing is moving the point of aim...which is exactly what the original poster said.
And science has been perfectly capable of explaining the mechanics of bumblebee flight ever since the flexible nature of bumblebee wings was taken into account...I think it has been about fourty years now.
And science has been perfectly capable of explaining the mechanics of bumblebee flight ever since the flexible nature of bumblebee wings was taken into account...I think it has been about fourty years now.
For that to work properly the rifle must remain in the exact same location as when the rifle was fired, any movement and the adjustment will be off. If you are 2" high and 1" left at 100 yards with 1/4 moa adjustment, 8 clicks down 4 right and try again.
Yes definitely filler material! In the time require to use that technique, one could have zeroed 2 rifles with the conventional method. He's trading time for rounds. I don't know what kind of ammo that writer is shooting, but a few extra rounds is not going to break the bank for most of the popular of calibers. Besides, it's fun to shoot more! Agreed that we're all doing the same thing while zeroing. But it is confusing to mention moving the reticle when the marked adjustments on the scope moves the point of impact. I know a shooter who tried to used a similar zeroing method, I believe he referred to it as "walking the crosshairs to the hole", which sounds like this 2 shot zeroing method. Being a newbie, he adjusted the scope the wrong way.
Are there any resources for the more math inclined folk here? The discussion of moving the sight to the POI is neat and seems better than the whack-f**k method that seems to be so very common, but there has to be a trig function to describe the arc of the bullet, distance and how high the sights have to be. My google-fu is weak apparently. Can anyone here help a nerd out?
W-F method?
You could bring in math skills to the conventional method of sighting your rifle. Pop quiz: With adjustment settings at 1/4" per click at 100 yards, how many clicks to move the POI 1" left at 25 yards? This is where your trig comes in handy. Technically, one could zero a rifle with 2 shots using the conventional method too. It's not as cumbersome as some may make it out to be if you do the math. 
Scenario,
shooting at target, aiming dead center. Bullet hits high. do I adjust so that crosshairs cover where the bullet hit?
Basically like everyone said, yes. But the fact that you said 'noob' i want to interject you should think about using 3shot groups instead of one shot. Its easy to 'miss' where you aim.
"...at 25..." Ha! Why would you sight in at 25 yards?
A one shot sight in is ludicrous. "need to have your rifle setup in a shooting vise" That being the key. I'd have called any of ya'll you names if you had told me this, but Crappy Tire sells one for $50. No provison for dealing with recoil though. http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...se/CROSSSELL~0755426 Bore+Snake.jsp?locale=en
"...resources for the more math inclined folk...has to be a trig function..." It isn't a math thing. Trig is far more complicated than necessary too. Bullets don't fly in straight lines anyway. They fly in an arc. When the bullet leaves the barrel it rises then comes back down. The principle of sighting in and ballistics is to know where the bullet is at a given distance. The math involved includes initial velocity, its loss over a distance, bullet weight, bullet shape, the effect of gravity, etc.
The 2 shot sight in method, requires a very solid rest. Usually an expensive mechanical device. Fire one shot, then adjust the reticle to the hole, if you have a spotting scope that'll let you see the hole. Saw it in a gun rag about 20 years ago. Doesn't work with a shooter in the equation.
For normal people, nerds or not, you need a group with whatever ammo/bullet weight, off a solid bench rest first. Then, off a solid bench rest, you adjust the sights for the POI to hit the bull at 100. The key is the rest. No bipods. Sight in off a bench then go to a bipod will change the POI.
Sighting in is about moving the group where you want it. Change ammo or bullet weight and you get to do it again.
"...I've been doing it wrong for over 40 years..." Ain't it daft?
A one shot sight in is ludicrous. "need to have your rifle setup in a shooting vise" That being the key. I'd have called any of ya'll you names if you had told me this, but Crappy Tire sells one for $50. No provison for dealing with recoil though. http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...se/CROSSSELL~0755426 Bore+Snake.jsp?locale=en
"...resources for the more math inclined folk...has to be a trig function..." It isn't a math thing. Trig is far more complicated than necessary too. Bullets don't fly in straight lines anyway. They fly in an arc. When the bullet leaves the barrel it rises then comes back down. The principle of sighting in and ballistics is to know where the bullet is at a given distance. The math involved includes initial velocity, its loss over a distance, bullet weight, bullet shape, the effect of gravity, etc.
The 2 shot sight in method, requires a very solid rest. Usually an expensive mechanical device. Fire one shot, then adjust the reticle to the hole, if you have a spotting scope that'll let you see the hole. Saw it in a gun rag about 20 years ago. Doesn't work with a shooter in the equation.
For normal people, nerds or not, you need a group with whatever ammo/bullet weight, off a solid bench rest first. Then, off a solid bench rest, you adjust the sights for the POI to hit the bull at 100. The key is the rest. No bipods. Sight in off a bench then go to a bipod will change the POI.
Sighting in is about moving the group where you want it. Change ammo or bullet weight and you get to do it again.
"...I've been doing it wrong for over 40 years..." Ain't it daft?
Depends on the scope. On higher quality scopes you can "click" your knobs to 1/4" at 100m at a time...some even more, or what? to get on the bull. (With some scopes you can't hear/feel a click).
I wouldn't worry about bullet drop compensation. Cause it sounds like you shoot point blank like most of us. Most new shooters aren't consistant with ammo specifications and you should be reloading to acheive this.
If you can pull the bolt off and see down the barrel you can quicky rough zero the rifle so you don't waste ammo. Makes sure the mounts are secure and the eye relief is set before you start. Ok i've been drinbking and now im confused. Hold the rifle frimly down with the on unzeroed scope and aim it at your actual bulleye now being very careful not to move the rifle turn the dials till the crosshairs are on the hole that you just shot. Untrained long range shooters should aim off according to wind/range etc...rather than cranking dials... or just use a shotgun like William Munny.lol
I wouldn't worry about bullet drop compensation. Cause it sounds like you shoot point blank like most of us. Most new shooters aren't consistant with ammo specifications and you should be reloading to acheive this.
If you can pull the bolt off and see down the barrel you can quicky rough zero the rifle so you don't waste ammo. Makes sure the mounts are secure and the eye relief is set before you start. Ok i've been drinbking and now im confused. Hold the rifle frimly down with the on unzeroed scope and aim it at your actual bulleye now being very careful not to move the rifle turn the dials till the crosshairs are on the hole that you just shot. Untrained long range shooters should aim off according to wind/range etc...rather than cranking dials... or just use a shotgun like William Munny.lol
This is repeated so often it's treated as gospel. Why confuse a new shooter with this misinformation? Bullets don't have wings or airfoils, they create no lift, and they don't ever "rise" above the bore line. Like everything else that gets thrown, they begin to fall immediately with respect to the line of the bore, tracing the arched path that everybody knows. When the sights or scope are pointed at a target, the barrel is actually pointed slightly upward with respect to the line of sight, so the bullet's arcing flight takes it above the line of sight, then allows it to fall back down. The line of sight is not parallel to the line of the bore, rather the two converge at some distance from the muzzle determined by how the gun is sighted-in. Trigonometry could be brought into it if you wanted to...the angle of convergence would change slightly based on how high the sights were above the center of the bore...but this is getting complicated. You're generally better off with the sights as low and close to the bore as possible.
Polar Man
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I once sighted my bolt 17hmr by removing the bolt, sighting at a distant oblect through the bore, and zeroing the scope to the same target. I used a homemade shooting vice, and I was getting groups an inch or two from centre at 100 yards. Poor mans bore sighting.
In sighting in a rifle you want the point of impact (POI) and the point of aim (POA) to coincide. You can do this by moving the POI to the POA or by moving the POA to the POI. The scope manufactures have generally decided how this should be done by inscribing the elevation turret with a little arrow and the word up. The instruction manual that comes with the scope generally tells you that rotating the turret in the up direction moves the POI up. The windage is done in a similar fashion.
When sighting in a scoped rifle one aligns the cross hairs of the scope with the target bulls eye and fires one or more rounds. If the POI is low, one turns the elevation turret up to move the POI toward the POA. Windage is done in the same way.
A shooting vice is optional. Think of it like a cane that an unsteady person uses to steady his gait.
When sighting in a scoped rifle one aligns the cross hairs of the scope with the target bulls eye and fires one or more rounds. If the POI is low, one turns the elevation turret up to move the POI toward the POA. Windage is done in the same way.
A shooting vice is optional. Think of it like a cane that an unsteady person uses to steady his gait.
Scenario,
shooting at target, aiming dead center. Bullet hits high. do I adjust so that crosshairs cover where the bullet hit?
Yes, but i hope that the gun your useing is clamped in so it doesnt move.
If you can reposition the gun so that its aiming at the bullseye again after you fire it, you just have to be carefull to not move it during the process of adjusting the windage and elevation dials. Works slick in my experience and save the mental math of how many clicks at initial 25 yard sight in to achieve a certain number of inches of change.
