Hot tank bluing chemicals

beeperboy

beeperboy

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I found this hot blue formula on the web that I'd like to try out. Does anyone know where I can find 33-0-0 fertilizer around Calgary? The garden centres don't sell it, and the big agro suppliers won't sell small quantities retail. I suspect it is/will be harder to buy now with all the recent terrorist activity.

http://www.geocities.com/kemays/formula.htm

If anyone else is interested in this, I found the lye at Home Hardware stores. 6lb. was about $20.

Thanks,
BB
 
What do you have in the way of dip tanks and temperature controls? Hot bluing requires precise temperature control and tanks big enough to hold the whole part plus a place with no other ferrous metals in the room you don't want a fine layer of rust on.
 
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sunray said:
What do you have in the way of dip tanks and temperature controls? Hpt bluing requires precise temperature control and tanks big enough to hold the whole part plus a place with no other ferrous metals in the room you don't want a fine layer of rust on.
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Tanks and temp control are not a problem. I do other types of metal finishes. I plan to do it outdoors behind my shop so I don't damage anything inside the shop.

Do you have any other tips that might be useful like surface preperation, and cleaning after the bluing is complete?

Thanks,
BB
 
I have used a similar formula from the Dixie catalgue that used sodium nitrate, rather than the ammonium version. No ammonia fumes. For chemicals, check your yellow pages for a chemical supply house. Surface prep. is very important, as is thorough degreasing. Prep., degrease, rinse, blue. The boiling temperature is controlled by the strength of the solution, and it is necessary to add water from time to time. Adding water to a solution already boiling at 290 degrees is interesting. After bluing, rinse and oil. Check the Brownells catalogue for information about bluing. You do need a proper setup to hot blue - doesn't have to be commercial, but it has to be well built. Hot bluing can be very dangerous. The solution is extremely caustic, and very hot. You cannot have an accident. Skin, eye protection is critical.
Hot water bluing is much easier, although more time consuming.
Parkerizing is the easiest finish to do at home.
 
tiriaq said:
I have used a similar formula from the Dixie catalgue that used sodium nitrate, rather than the ammonium version. No ammonia fumes.
Click to expand...

Is the proportions of chemicals and water in the sodium blue the same as the ammonium version?

tiriaq said:
Parkerizing is the easiest finish to do at home.
Click to expand...

Do you have a recipe for Parkerizing?

Thanks,
BB
 
Mudpuppy said:
Parkerizing Solution
1000 ml distilled water
30 ml 89% phosphoric acid.
14 g Manganese dioxide (Mn02)
5 g fine iron filings(or steel wool
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Thanks, this is one for the keeper file. Is manganese dioxide available in drug stores under another name?

BB
 
beeperboy said:
Thanks, this is one for the keeper file. Is manganese dioxide available in drug stores under another name?

BB
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Check a store that sells pottery supplies, they use manganese dioxide and zinc oxide for glazing ceramic. Some gardening centers may also have the manganese.
 
tiriaq said:
I have used a similar formula from the Dixie catalgue that used sodium nitrate, rather than the ammonium version. No ammonia fumes. For chemicals, check your yellow pages for a chemical supply house. Surface prep. is very important, as is thorough degreasing. Prep., degrease, rinse, blue. The boiling temperature is controlled by the strength of the solution, and it is necessary to add water from time to time. Adding water to a solution already boiling at 290 degrees is interesting. After bluing, rinse and oil. Check the Brownells catalogue for information about bluing. You do need a proper setup to hot blue - doesn't have to be commercial, but it has to be well built. Hot bluing can be very dangerous. The solution is extremely caustic, and very hot. You cannot have an accident. Skin, eye protection is critical.
Hot water bluing is much easier, although more time consuming.
Parkerizing is the easiest finish to do at home.
Click to expand...

My experience with amonium nitrate bluing bears this out. Lifted all the stain off my deck during a boil over episode. (don't put aluminum anything in the solution) I tried a screen for small parts. It disolved instantly, and boiled over.
The fumes about half killed a small tree off the end of the deck.
I was working on a misty day, so the water vapour knocked a lot of the fumes out of the air. A light breeze helped keep them away from me.
290 degrees is what you are supposed to need, but i got no results until i was at 310. That takes some time with a large volume of liquid, and generates tons of fumes.

Getting the 30-0-0 will be exceptionally difficult, after the Toronto incident the first thing asked, will be what do you want it for?, and the quantity will raise some flags too, you only need five pounds or so.
Do you have any cop friends that could go in with you?
 
Just a couple of further comments - if you only want to blue parts, pistols, etc., the setup doesn't have to be particularly large, and can be done at home, if you are careful. If you want to blue a couple of longarms, talk to a 'smith, and make an arrangement for him to run your stuff through the tanks, after you have done the prep. Getting the parts ready for bluing is what takes time, and therefore costs money if done professionally. If you want to get a rig for doing a good job of bluing longarms, take the time to build a proper setup. This will include the equipment for preparing the parts, buffers, blast cabinet, etc. Remember that an improperly used buffer can really make a mess of a gun.
 
Mudpuppy said:
Check a store that sells pottery supplies, they use manganese dioxide and zinc oxide for glazing ceramic. Some gardening centers may also have the manganese.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that's a good lead.

BB
 
John Y Cannuck said:
Getting the 30-0-0 will be exceptionally difficult, after the Toronto incident the first thing asked, will be what do you want it for?, and the quantity will raise some flags too, you only need five pounds or so.
Click to expand...

You are right. I was working in farm country yesterday, so I stopped in at a farm fuel and fertilizer outlet. The guy said you can't buy ammonium nitrate anymore because of the idiots doing bad things with it. He said it is only sold to farmers and explosives companies with permits. Then he laughed and asked if I was going to blow something up. The only 33-0-0 they have now is urea based stuff which isn't what we want for bluing.

A little more research last night revealed that potasium nitrate and sodium nitrate will work for bluing too. Sodium nitrate is a food additive, so that might be easy to buy locally.

Potasium nitrate is the only ingrediant in some brands of tree stump remover. Also 14-0-45 fertilizer is apparently 98% potasium nitrate. A Google of that showed that the model rocket guys use it for a propellent.

I'm heading to the garden centre today to do a little more digging.

BB
 
tiriaq said:
Just a couple of further comments - if you only want to blue parts, pistols, etc., the setup doesn't have to be particularly large, and can be done at home, if you are careful.
Click to expand...

If I can find all the ingredients, I plan to blue some of my homemade shop tools and maybe a few pistol parts. I just like to tinker and learn new things, and I'm certainly not expecting commercial quality results. I'll leave the rebluing of my expensive guns to a real gunsmith. I've seen lots of guns ruined by amateur gunsmiths.

BB
 
My first hot bluing (or how I spent my Father's Day)

Well,
I managed to scrounge up enough stuff to try my hand at hot bluing today. I gave up on finding ammonium nitrate. I found potassium nitrate in the hydroponics supplies stores. It was about $2.50/lb. As mentioned before, I found lye in a local Home Hardware store. It was about $20 for a 6 lb. tub.

The bluing turned out great. I had to work at it pretty hard with a screwdriver blade to scratch it. It seems very durable. Time will tell. Much better than I had hoped for on my first attempt. I took some pictures, but I just noticed that I can't post photos here.

Thanks to all for their help...

BB
 
Image test
DSCN0564.JPG
 
John Y Cannuck said:
You be wrong boy, time to find a better spot to host your images
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LOL, Okay. I thought I could attach the pictures to the post. I realize now that I need to upload them somewhere and link to the pictures.

BB
 
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