House fire and guns

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Richard123

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We've had a house fire and my guns (various rifles and shotguns) were in the house. Those in the gun locker were probably exposed to some very high temperatures, but otherwise look fine. Don't know what the temperature was inside the cabinet, but the ammo appears undamaged. (I threw it out to be sure)

Those on the rack were covered in a fine layer of ash but not exposed to extreme heat. (Remington 870, 12 gauge; and a Parker Hale, 30.06 with scope)

The ones in the cabinet all appear to look fine. I've wiped and cleaned (with basic gun cleaning kit) the guns that were covered in soot and they now look fine to my untrained eye. Naturally, I am very cautious about using them. The insurance company doesn't know very much about this.

Obviously, having each gun inspected will be the only way to identify any damage or usability issues. I'm still learning about this, and I want to be able to have a discussion with the gunsmith so I want to learn more before approaching people. Here are a few questions I hope someone can help me with:
1. In very general terms, how does extreme heat damage a gun
2. In very general terms, what issues may a gun covered in soot have
3. I'm not far from Toronto. Are there any reputable gun smiths in this region who are experience in this area?
4. Finally, if any of you know of a blog post or article on this subject, can you please pass me a link.

Thanks

Richard
 
Sorry to hear about your house fire, I hope all involved made it out OK.
To answer your first question, fire can change the temper in metal if it is exposed long enough and to high heat. A general rule of thumb is if any springs have lost tension, the firearm should be scrapped. This is not to say that each firearm shouldn't be disassembled and checked by someone competent as to what they are looking at and for.
Fire exposes things to different chemicals and those in the rack eventually may start to rust as a result. Best to have them disassembled and checked/cleaned as well.
 
There was no one home so, thankfully, we are all fine.

Thanks for you comments. That all seems to make sense.
At some point, I will have to make a decision on scrapping them or keeping them. I suppose that if I am not 100% confident in their usability, then I will not enjoy using them and they have to go, regardless of what a professional says about them. Thankfully, they are under insurance. If I do decide to scrap them, I believe that I hand them over to the police for disposal. Not entirely sure about that either.

Thanks again,
Richard
 
If the varnish has melted or the molded stocks deformed, it could be enough heat
to distort the springs and such.
If they were mine with unblemished stocks, I sure wouldn't have a problem using them.
Then again, not sure how your insurance is written on such items?
 
Generally the rule is that if the wood stock burns, the temper will be affected to some degree. If no wood has ignited then the temperature is under 500 degrees F, and the temper would only change if it was held near that level for 18 - 24 hours. If the temperature surges towards 1000 the wood burns, springs are damaged and the barrel and action are also damaged. That the ammo did not explode is a good indicator that the firearms remain un-damaged. Still best to have a competent smith or metallurgist consult on them, you might even get the insurance company to pony up for that (yeah! Right!).
 
Kamlooky and T&G

Thanks for the comments.
The fire was nowhere near 18-24 hours and the stocks, actually everything to do with the appearance, looks great. I hope to be able to keep them. We'll see.
 
Sounds like you'll almost certainly be keeping them - I've encountered guns with some mild heat exposure that were taken in for testing and they were ok - stocks were scorched but just barely. Plastic got brittle too. I've also used parts off fire guns and they were fine.

If you do scrap them, don't give them to the police. First reason is that the RCMP add those guns to the list of firearms that were "taken off the streets" and makes their stats look better. Secondly, you can sell the parts and make some money. Depending on what guns they are I always need parts and practice parts for engraving etc.
 
Wood starts to burn at about 350C. Steel can start losing temper at 221C.
http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/heattreat4.html
The soot won't do anything.
Insurance companies don't know much about anything. However, if you make a claim and do not have a fire and theft replacement value rider, you will get whatever the insurance company thinks your firearms are worth. And they think everything decreases in value over time. While your stuff isn't collector stuff, it's still going to cost you more now to replace 'em, should you need to, than it did when you bought 'em.
 
In response to part 2 of your questions:

AFAIK soot can damage the metal depending on the type of fire

If it were a protein fire (e.g. Fire started from cooking something) there may be ammonias in the soot that can corrode the metal.

However, you did mention that you have already cleaned the guns

I would keep an eye on the metal in the following weeks to see if any rust or pitting begins to show

Normally this would only happen if the soot had been sitting on the firearm for quite some time though

All the best on getting your house back to normal

Glad nobody was hurt!
 
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From what you've posted I would say that you are good to go. I wouldn't hesitate to use them in the condition you describe. The most important thing is a very detailed cleaning, puling stocks off and ensuring that you get into every nook and cranny. The remnants of a fire can cause a lot of damage but it sounds like, at least in the gun department, you dodged a bullet.

Hope everything goes well with the aftermath of the fire.
 
sunray said:
Wood starts to burn at about 350C. Steel can start losing temper at 221C.
http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/heattreat4.html
The soot won't do anything.
Insurance companies don't know much about anything. However, if you make a claim and do not have a fire and theft replacement value rider, you will get whatever the insurance company thinks your firearms are worth. And they think everything decreases in value over time. While your stuff isn't collector stuff, it's still going to cost you more now to replace 'em, should you need to, than it did when you bought 'em.
Click to expand...

Wood will char at about 230C. Spring steel loses temper at about 300C.
 
See if you can locate some Ballistol and get to cleaning. The soot is caustic and will cause rust if not removed. Normal gun cleaning supplies only remove some and cover the rest.

I had a house fire in 2011 and learned a bunch of tricks. Buy some of the hunting laundry soaps to help get smoke odor from clothes, vinegar and baking soda work well also.

Get some Mr. Clean cleaning pads (the white eraser) and clean most everything with hot freaking water that melts your hands. Silverware can be saved, most glassware is not. (it will look and smell clean but leaves a taste)

Back to firearms, you could also try some premade black powder cleaning liquids for your firearms. And don't forget to get very personal with all of the firearm (COMPLETE TAKEDOWN) That soot gets in every thing.
 
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