How Accurate is accurate !?
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TargetNorth
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- Southern Alberta
Heh, I've shot a 1/4MOA group once in my stock savage... only took like 200 shots to get there... 
Thanks for the comment, always interesting to read whats everybody had to say.
On my side, I could swear that my factory ''properly lapped'' Rem shoot 1/2''and sometimes 1/4'', but never worst than 3/4''Consistently.
(Yes I reaload for those who were wondering)
This being said the thing about the distance might be thrue, I only have a 100 yards near my location.
PS: Thanks to Mysticplayer, that's exactly the kind of coment/answer I was looking for.
I mean, if a custom benchrest gave one freaking hole at 100 yard, it's something noticeable, if the AICS will just do the same as the remmy at 100 yards, I mean it does not worth it.
Like some were saying, I will have to try longer distance shooting to see.
Thanks for the interest, I'm still not fixed about the custom gun but it's still interesting to read.
On my side, I could swear that my factory ''properly lapped'' Rem shoot 1/2''and sometimes 1/4'', but never worst than 3/4''Consistently.
(Yes I reaload for those who were wondering)
This being said the thing about the distance might be thrue, I only have a 100 yards near my location.
PS: Thanks to Mysticplayer, that's exactly the kind of coment/answer I was looking for.
I mean, if a custom benchrest gave one freaking hole at 100 yard, it's something noticeable, if the AICS will just do the same as the remmy at 100 yards, I mean it does not worth it.
Like some were saying, I will have to try longer distance shooting to see.
Thanks for the interest, I'm still not fixed about the custom gun but it's still interesting to read.
First don't compare benchrest shooting with Tactical/F-Class shooting.......two different animals with very different approached and requirements.........
People change things on their rifles for different reasons........what isn't worth it to you, may be worth it to others..........My Rem 700 DM PSS shot just fine with the Factory stock...........but the Rem. Detachable mag system sucked!!!!!!......it wasn't very reliable, and the mags only held 5 rounds............plus I also did not like the fatter palm swell on the stock.............The AICS offered a stock/chassis that had reliable 5 and 10 round mags, plus a pistol grip style stock that fit me and my shooting style much better.............accuracy improved a little as I was more comfortable, and the AICS mags worked like a dream.........after replacing the factory barrel with a McPhee barrel, and having my action blueprinted, accuracy and consistency improved yet again.........
Bottom line is if you are happy with how it shoots now, keep it as it is.........now get out further then 100 yards and really see what your rifle can do................ I would say as least 300 meters as a minimum........
This is a thread which has asked more quaestions than have been answered. The intial question was something along the lines of, "Why spend a whole bunch of money for a 308 which shoots about the same as the one I have?" Well, if performance on the target is your primary criteria, there may well be no reason to spend more. The truth is, there is indeed a limit to what you can do with a 308 regardless of the amount of money you throw at it. Having said that, I will confess to being impressed by the accuracy shown by some of the better tactical customs. They are still 1/2 minute rifles but they are very consistent half minute rifles. Still, a less expensive rifle which shoots as well, shoots as well and that's all there is to it. The shooter just has to be content with being able to brag about the targets he produces rather than the amount of money he spends.
I may have had one 308 which was a near-quarter minute rifle. This was a 10 1/2 pound 308 with which I once fired an aggregate of around .27. I recall the fifth group had one shot out which opened that group up to over 1/2 inch (fatigue). Plainly, the other groups were small. The best group was a .128 and there were two others under 1/4 inch. That was the best agg I ever fired with a 308 and I never came close again. At the time time, I was shooting a lot of BR and was doing fairly well at it. Anyway, that was a good 308. I have had a bunch which were honest sub-half minute rifles and my current 300 meter "F" class rifle may be a 1/4 minute rifle but it's not what I would call a "practical" rifle. The practical 308s are probably shooting at the 1/2 minute level when I have to contend with witnesses. Considerably better than that when I'm alone!
Barring insufficient twist or an ammunition deficiency, a rifle which shoots well at close range will shoot well at long. The action will have little effect.
The exception to this is, of course, the #4 which was well known for it's ability to compensate for velocity variations. A good Lee Enfield might shoot quite poorly at 300 but would really shine at 800.
I think it is fairly easy to produce a real 3/8 minute 308 but it is very difficult to truly shoot it to that level.
By the way, are motorcycles in Europe not governed? I can recall German riders complaining about being limited to 100 horsepower and having to come over here to ride the real stuff. Really a moot point in my case. At this stage in my life, slowing reflexes and shriveled testicles govern my speed! Regards, Bill
I may have had one 308 which was a near-quarter minute rifle. This was a 10 1/2 pound 308 with which I once fired an aggregate of around .27. I recall the fifth group had one shot out which opened that group up to over 1/2 inch (fatigue). Plainly, the other groups were small. The best group was a .128 and there were two others under 1/4 inch. That was the best agg I ever fired with a 308 and I never came close again. At the time time, I was shooting a lot of BR and was doing fairly well at it. Anyway, that was a good 308. I have had a bunch which were honest sub-half minute rifles and my current 300 meter "F" class rifle may be a 1/4 minute rifle but it's not what I would call a "practical" rifle. The practical 308s are probably shooting at the 1/2 minute level when I have to contend with witnesses. Considerably better than that when I'm alone!
Barring insufficient twist or an ammunition deficiency, a rifle which shoots well at close range will shoot well at long. The action will have little effect.
The exception to this is, of course, the #4 which was well known for it's ability to compensate for velocity variations. A good Lee Enfield might shoot quite poorly at 300 but would really shine at 800.
I think it is fairly easy to produce a real 3/8 minute 308 but it is very difficult to truly shoot it to that level.
By the way, are motorcycles in Europe not governed? I can recall German riders complaining about being limited to 100 horsepower and having to come over here to ride the real stuff. Really a moot point in my case. At this stage in my life, slowing reflexes and shriveled testicles govern my speed! Regards, Bill
Bill, very good point. 1990's Germany really got into restricting the freedoms of motorcyclists. Not sure how they are doing now. In England at least, it was a manufacturers voluntary BHP limitation. This occurred in the late 90's with the introduction of the close to genuine 200MPH production Huyabusa. Our daily 165 MPH commuter bikes were not effected.
BTW, who rode faster when they came over, you or the Germans? Just pilling your leg bill.
Sorry for the side track but ther was a lot of fast cars mentioned in this thread.
Heh, I've shot a 1/4MOA group once in my stock savage... only took like 200 shots to get there...
Barrel must have been a little warm.
If you can shoot well, seldom does a high dollar rifle help the situation. Sure it probably wont hurt anything and your ego will swell when you place it into the rack at the range. Backing it up is another story. Shooting basics always get over looked ( breathing, patience, actuall distance calculation, trigger control, flinching, and even gun matenance, and reloading ) . Often the rifle is not to blame.
I know of a few people that literally imbarass green shooters while rockin a Sportco with irons against the latest and greatest. Enough said, when both guys go and check targets to find out the latest and greatest is barely grouping inside 2 inches at 100 yards and 3 or 4 inches at 200 yard off a concrete bench all bagged up.
Again.......Is it the rifle ???????? Doubt it. Not saying that the green shooter or arogant shooter wont be making bug holes but shooting is a lot easier said than done.
Accuracy
If your shooting at 100 M. and you,ll continue shooting at 100 M and your happy at 100 M. then ignore everyone here that said move back farther and try it. If your gonna shoot 100, build/beg/borrow a 100 M gun and shoot 100M
Alot of people have more than one gun. 1 for short range 1 for long.
Look towards 6mm for short range accuracy or other BR calibers.
I had great success with my 6PPC and my 6BR.
First suggestion is find someone with a BR caliber rifle and try shooting it. See if it's what your after. You,ll also have to step it up a notch on your reloading to get consistant UNDER 1/4 min. targets. Then Practice, Practice, Practice.
Don't forget to pin up your best ones on the frig.
Short range target
Longer Range target
Both shot with a 6BR caliber rifle.
Mike
If your shooting at 100 M. and you,ll continue shooting at 100 M and your happy at 100 M. then ignore everyone here that said move back farther and try it. If your gonna shoot 100, build/beg/borrow a 100 M gun and shoot 100M
Alot of people have more than one gun. 1 for short range 1 for long.
Look towards 6mm for short range accuracy or other BR calibers.
I had great success with my 6PPC and my 6BR.
First suggestion is find someone with a BR caliber rifle and try shooting it. See if it's what your after. You,ll also have to step it up a notch on your reloading to get consistant UNDER 1/4 min. targets. Then Practice, Practice, Practice.
Don't forget to pin up your best ones on the frig.
Short range target
Longer Range target
Both shot with a 6BR caliber rifle.
Mike
