How accurate is your SKS/CZ858/Mini-30 and Norinco M14/M305

dukecrab

dukecrab

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I have been searching the web, but did not get much ideal.


I know the best price I can get on a SKS is on Marstar now at $199 with a hard case and a ...T-shirt
The best price for a CZ858 might be at Badger/wolverine at $695, 3.5 X SKS's price,

there is already such a thread in this forum comparing SKS to CZ858
I know CZ858 is better, and it is more accurate than a SKS
but to me, what I care about is, how more accurate is a CZ858 than a SKS?
"if" a sks has 8 MOA at 100 yards out of box in iron sight, then what is about a CZ858?
and what about both have been mounted with side-railed scope?

can you guys give some information about your gun?
please, tell me the best result you can get over SKS/CZ858 and Norinco M14/M305 ? (to get more information to compare, I want to know about Norinco M14 as well, might be my second rifle)

with iron sight or with a scope?

Thanks a lot for the input!
 
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My M305 with Boyds bedded walnut stock, 3.5 lb trigger, UTG base and Weaver 6X will give me 1.5"/100m groups all day with 168SMK handloads and about 4" groups with TZ80 surplus. My PolyTec M305 with non-bebbed factory plastic stock, B&L 3-9x40 optics, about, 2" groups with the same handloads.

Seminov SKS with Czech surplus 6" @100 with factory open sights. I just can't see the sights well enough to do better, half that now with optics, so lets say consistent 3.5" when using a 4X POSP.

Waiting for my CZ858......:)
 
:agree:... I have a hard time making good groups with my 858 at 50 yards.. I know the problem is me... and why I say that: I am used to scoped .22 rifles.. I can see the target,and there is no recoil.I also have a hard time using iron sights on the 858...going from .22 to 7.62 is in my opinion a large jump in recoil.... A muzzle break,bipod,scope and more practice should get me in the happy zone.
 
My Norc M14 will do 1.5" to 3" groups at 100m with various factory ammo. It sports a cheapo 'chu' wood stock and a light see through scope mount with a Leupold compact 2-7x33. I also lightened it up by replacing the recoil pad with a rubber one and taking out the 'junk in the trunk'. :p

I feel I should mention that the accuracy of a rifle is the same with or without optics. Optics just help the shooter to get closer to the rifle's accuracy, unless of course the shooter is an exceptional shot. The best quick way to test a rifle's accuracy is with good optics and proper technique off a bench. Otherwise mounting it on a benchrest will give the supreme results.

My reason for buying a M14/M305 is it's cheaper than a CZ858, yet has at least the same accuracy and enough power to take down moose at 200+ meters.
 
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Ok my experience shooting surplus and iron sights.

Sks 4 to 5 moa
858 4v restricted about same as an sks
858 non restricted about 3 moa
m-305 about 2 moa


I have never seen minute of barn door that you often see attributed to sks.
 
JBD said:
Ok my experience shooting surplus and iron sights.

Sks 4 to 5 moa
858 4v restricted about same as an sks
858 non restricted about 3 moa
m-305 about 2 moa


I have never seen minute of barn door that you often see attributed to sks.
Click to expand...

You're going to find you need at least one of everything in your original list anyway, so start small and work your way up :p

I think most of us can report similar numbers for unmodified rifles.

If you go with a Russian SKS, pick it out in person - I bought two crates over the 'net, one from Moving Target, one from Milarm. Quality ranged from factory like finish and almost new wood, to a couple that look that look like they were a grade two student's art project. We also got one with a big ding in the crown and the 1950 I'm trying to find an extractor for.

Or you could go with the Chinese and all you have to worry about is a thorough clean when it arrives @ your door....

I don't have to remind you to buy as much 7.62x39 as you can get your hands on right?
 
With my SKS and Iron sights I have put up several 1 inch groups at 50m! It will consistently put 10 shots in a 2 inch bull at 50m.

At 100m with the Irons I am getting 4-6 inch groupings but that is just because the front sight covers most of the target.

If I had a reliable solid scope mount I am sure it could shoot much better.
 
I just use my SKS for plinking / fun shooting. I've only shot surplus, iron sights and usually offhand. Normal targets would include golf balls on the pit floor at 10 to 40 yards (they move around) and clay birds set up on the pit walls at 40-50 yards. My experience has been that the gun is reasonably accurate under these conditions, with me being the deciding factor. Sometimes it's bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and five clays will have fallen victim to the evil SKS. Other (most) times it's not that good, but fun as heck regardless. I'm told that with better ammo the SKS is more accurate, but the surplus works fine for my purposes.
 
I get good accuracy with my sks and surplus ammo.

3-4 inch groups at 100m and I can hit a 11x13 inch steel plate 3 out of 5 at 200 m, good enough for 200 bux. It helped a lot when I put my sks in a choate tools stock, just the basic stock not any handgrips or bubba stuff.
 
With open sights, my mini 14 gets 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards, and my M14 gets about the same at 100 yards.

I'll have to investigate the grouping of my SKS and CZ 858 before I can do an accurate measurement.
 
My 580 series Mini can outshoot just about any other gun of its type that I own (SKS, CZ858,etc), but, it is scoped. With 69 grain bullets, it is nothing to shoot inside 2" at 100 yards. With that said, I am certain that my CZ858 could do that with handloads and a scope. I have never done as well with an SKS. I have shot into an inch with many M14's, but have since sold them.
 
My basic Norc M14 with a Springfield mount and Burris 4.5x - 14x and Remington UMC ammo will get 2" @ 100m. The SKS on the other hand gets roughly 6" @ 100m with irons and a bipod. Still probably the best deal for the money.
 
I have all three of the guns you mentioned and have handloaded for them all.

SKS
Surplus ammo fired into 12" groups at 50 yards before the trigger job and then into about 3" afterward.
Reloads were no better. After several attempts to better these results, I stopped trying. .308 & .310 bullets were equally inaccurate.
I have used both a 3-9x40 scope and a Bushnell 1x32 red dot and nothing made a difference re: accuracy. Everyone's opinion is different but IMO it's not really a lot of fun to go shooting and not shoot well because your firearm's not capable of it.

CZ858
Handloaded several recipes ranging from 100gr to 150gr bullets of various flavours, mostly using IMR 4198 and have had good success keeping groups within 3" at 100 yards. Some have been better. I really like shooting this rifle because for practical purposes, it's a good bush gun. I plan to deer hunt with it this year. It's currently fitted with a 1x Sig Sauer red dot sight on the handguard which I prefer to the iron sights. Will not be fitting the receiver with a scope mount. Already learned that lesson with the SKS. Having a scope over the receiver of either gun is a PITA IMO. I may consider a LER magnified scope in the future as I have with my Mosin. The Fab Defense pistol grip/handguard are a must IMO because the stock grip is just too small.

M305
Pleasantly surprised with how accurate this gun is out of the box. With the iron sights, the weakest link in the equation is me. I have scoped the rifle in an attempt to shrink my groups a little and expect that it will help. This gun/cartridge does not mind bullets from 110gr through 168gr being propelled by various powders but the best I've used so far is H4895. It's a little big to be carting around the Ontario bush with me but I may just do it anyway :D
 
I have 3 sks's. One iron sights, two scoped. Iron sights will shoot a 6" gong at 100 yds all day, but it is hard to see, front sight covers it completely. One scoped rifle shot 6-8" groups at 100yds. Not very good even counting the surplus rounds. I have since drilled into the muzzle to counter-bore it and eliminate the muzzle wear. It now easily shoots 3MOA. The other scoped sks will shoot surplus ammo into 2" all day at 100yds.

I also have a Remington 799 in x39mm. Scoped, with handloads, it is sub MOA. About 5/8". But it's a bolt action.
 
Thanks for your input


maybe I shouln't include the open sight, because for SKS at 100 yards, the iron sight seems too big and block a large view...
and it varies a greate deal when faced with open sight and surplus ammunition.
some people get 6-8 inch group, while some experts get to 4-5 inch.....

How about let focused on

scoped/non-surplus ammunition of SKS/CZ858/M305 ?
 
dukecrab said:
Thanks for your input


may be I shouln't include the open sight, because for SKS at 100 yards, the iron sight seems too big and block a large view...

I get the ideal now, for most people, with normal non-surplus ammo, on a scoped :
@100 yards
SKS - 4 MOA
CZ858 - 3 MOA
M305 - 1.5 MOA
most bolt action rifle - sub MOA

when people says CZ858 is "more" accurate than SKS, it is acuatlly " a liitle more", not so much,
while M305 is actually "much more" accurate than SKS

IS my understanding right?
Click to expand...

In general, yes you seem to have summed it up nicely. Of course there are variations in accuracy between rifles of each type. Another consideration is the SKS is cheaper than the CZ858 and M305. And if you shoot factory ammunition the M305 will cost you a lot more to shoot. Which rifle fits your need all depends on what you want it for. Alternatively you can do like some gunnutz here and just buy one of each! :D
 
My 858 about 4" at 100 M with open sights and CZ surplus ammo.
My Chicom SKS nothing less than 6" at the same distance with open sights. Of course its stock doesn't fit me as well as the 858's stock does and its trigger is h-o-r-r-e-n-d-o-u-s, so that might explain the difference in accuracy.
 
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